Beginner -- high bar squat form checks (using a pin for a bar reference)

[AureliusPhi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOSp43v7vBE

Second attempt, trying to go a little deeper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB69V2EIGKM

Any tips would be appreciated. I am 6'2", if that helps.

I do have a side-question though: If I WERE to squat like this, using the real bar, weight, etc, would I be at risk of hurting myself? Would I be able to make good process squatting as in the video?

I ask because I worry that I don't know when I'm "ready" to squat and actually exercise vs. practicing form first to make sure I'm not doing anything too stupid.
It would help to know, for example: "You're squat isn't ready, and here's why..." or "That squat is probably fine, but here are some ways to make it better..." etc.

[BareSteel]

A.P you win the award for most unique setting for a squat check video.

I see lumbar over extension and an attempt to keep the spine vertical (perhaps these are related problems). Granted, a high bar squat produces a more upright torso than low bar, but these aren't front squats. A significant weight would exploit that form fault - the metal rod you're holding will not.

I suspect that your knees are pinching in, but I can't tell from this angle.

These are more akin to what a standing leg press would look like (trying to be helpful, not mean ) so you definitely need some work. I'd say that you would not be able to squat a significant weight with these mechanics, because you'd be off balance.

If you want to practice without weight, I'd advise doing a body weight squat with your arms out in front. Then add the challenge of bar position later.

[AureliusPhi]

Yeah, I mainly chose the location for the better lighting.

I lack kinesthetic awareness and have a hard time seeing what my own body is doing wrong, so I have absolutely no idea where this lumbar over-extension thing is or how to fix it. I'm trying to keep a straight back on the way down, but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong exactly.

Should I be trying low bar instead?

[BareSteel]

I lack kinesthetic awareness and have a hard time seeing what my own body is doing wrong...

Grrr... I hate this crap! Haha. You're learning how to squat. You have permission to be uncertain about what you're body is supposed to be doing. First gain an intellectual understanding of what a good squat looks like. Then make your body do it.

Okay, back on track: Let's review three lumbar positions:
1. Flexion - Think rounded like a turtle (ouch)
2. Neutral - Think straight, natural slight S curve shape (this is the goal)
3. Over extension - Think of an excessive arching (ouch)

These positions all refer to the relationships of the vertebrae to one another - not to the angle your back makes.

I can see that you have a slight amount of extra extension going on. That's because you're trying to squat with a vertical spine - which is different from having a straight back. Vertical references the angle, straight references the alignment between your vertebrae. Make sense?

I think you've got to first decide if you want to squat high bar or low bar. I use Starting Strength low bar style squats. These are the ones I can comment on semi-intelligently. But you may choose high bar and that's fine too. Make that choice first and then move forward on getting some reading material on what these movements look like.

[AureliusPhi]

Haha, alright -- good to know, thanks!

Attempt with bar (I guess this is a low bar attempt?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzn0eh0og5g

Thoughts?

[BareSteel]

Have you read Starting Strength? That's your guide if you want to go low bar. Lots of things going on here that are very fixable, but probably out of the scope of a few board messages. First get a fundamental grasp of the LBBS. Then we can clean it up from there.

If you want to go low bar and you're also a visual learner, I encourage you to scour YouTube for some of Rippetoe's coaching videos. Here's a start: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/videos

[AureliusPhi]

Have you read Starting Strength? That's your guide if you want to go low bar. Lots of things going on here that are very fixable, but probably out of the scope of a few board messages. First get a fundamental grasp of the LBBS. Then we can clean it up from there.

If you want to go low bar and you're also a visual learner, I encourage you to scour YouTube for some of Rippetoe's coaching videos. Here's a start: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/videos

I have read it, yes. Again though the problem is translating it into actual movement. I've also watched most of Rippetoe's videos (as well as videos by Alan Thrall, etc). I can't tell, though, when my own form is acceptable vs. totally off due to lack of experience, which is why I am asking you guys, haha.

[BareSteel]

Roger that. Well, if your aim is a low bar back squat, let me give you a few pointers for next time out. Refining will come later. All points referring to your recent video with the bar.

1. Sit back more. You're all knee right now. It looks too much like a front squat. Understand that by sitting back with the hips, your back angle will be more horizontal. It's not just okay - it's necessary for a proper low bar variation of the squat.

2. Do this progression verbatim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawBY5p29fQ
This is the basic progression that you'd get at an SS seminar. Do it step-by-step and video what you look like in the correct position. You will compare this to how you squat presently.

[AureliusPhi]

I am not sure what I am supposed to be comparing. That video is basically illustrating the use of hip drive -- bringing your butt up out of the lift rather than lifting with your chest. Are you saying that I am currently lifting with my chest too much?

Also my concern with having a horizontal back is that I can't tell the difference between a properly horizontal back and a rounded spine.

[BareSteel]

I am not sure what I am supposed to be comparing. That video is basically illustrating the use of hip drive -- bringing your butt up out of the lift rather than lifting with your chest. Are you saying that I am currently lifting with my chest too much?

The first part is really what I want you to see - getting down into position with both the hips and knees together, rather than trying to do it all with the knees alone.

Also my concern with having a horizontal back is that I can't tell the difference between a properly horizontal back and a rounded spine.

This could be hard for me to explain, you'll have to get a feel for it with practice and taking videos to see what's happening.

Remember that you're not going to be horizontal with the floor, but you are going to be leaning over more than you are presently - you'll have no choice if you sit your hips back like you have to. Look at page 15 if you have Starting Strength 3rd edition. See how the lifter doing a front squat has an upright torso? The low bar lifter has a more acute back angle, but both lifters have a straight back.

Back angle is one thing. And if you use your hips and knees together, your back angle will probably find itself without specific cueing on your end. Rounding of the spine is a whole different thing and it has to do with the relationship between the vertebrae themselves.