Pull-up progression at high bodyweight

[RentedOrange]

I'm currently weighing in at around 120kg (6'6") but really want to focus on pull up and upper back work which I see as crucial to progression on the Bench Press.

My problem is that at a high bodyweight, it's near impossible to to make progression such as in sets of 5 as I'd like to. This seems to me to be like trying to improve my squat by only ever being able to use a 150kg barbell.

Would barbell rows be a good alternative as it uses similar musculature though not identical? SS 2nd ed. suggests kipping pull ups but these aren't that easy at 120kg either and are hard to replicate the amount of 'help' used each session.

[Mark Rippetoe]

http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=39028

[RentedOrange]

Well this is why I posted, that thread you linked to is just 4 pages of people arguing over what the best way to do it is and just turns into everyone having a shitfit about negatives, bands and cable pull downs.

I'd prefer to hear from Rip on what his advice is, as I'd trust his advice more and I'd rather have one clear answer (when he gets back from Brookyln).

[Tiburon]

Here is a guy your BW doing a set of 55 chins. Konstantinovs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8rGhJvE

[FatButWeak]

You did not state your age, which might be relevant.

At 43yo, I am tall (6'4") and heavy (now 225 down from 340) , also, and was never able to do pullups until fairly recently, when my overall levels of strength (thanks SS!) and bodyfat levels (thanks ketogenic diet!) approached harmony, which occured about 8 months ago. Since that time I have been working on a progression of sorts. I started out doing partials (stand below pullup bar then pull up; lower to a standing position then pull up again) then moved on to sets of three full length dead hang pullups; then three sets to failure (first set was for 8, then usually 6 and 6); now I am "greasing the groove" doing sets of four for 10 to 15 sets per day. I mention my varied training methods over these past 8 months because I kept injuring myself.

My theory is (and this will sound illogical, so bear with me) I have enough strength in the "big" bits (biceps, lats, rhomboids, lower traps) to perform the pullup movement, but the little pieces (grip, shoulders, forearms, elbows) are not well adapted to the angles, stretches, strains and stresses of lots of pullups. Hence, I keep "tweaking" those smaller parts, some of which are connective tissues. Its annoying because I want to improve my chins, mainly to help my bench and deadlift, but the pains are a distraction.

My advice is to sanely and calmly progress on pullups by not overdoing volume and not going to failure. I know (think?) Rip recommends taking pullups to failure on TM, but if you are very heavy and not well adapted to the movemement, this might cause a lot of small injuries. Not massive injuries, mind you, but small nagging injuries. For the most part, these can be worked through. I beleive Rip's advice on the elbow pain is to ignore it and it will go away. This is true. I kept chinning despite my tennis elbow-likje pain and eventually it did go away. Right now I am dealing with some left forearm pain that hurts when I squeeze the pullup bar. But I think the more efficient route is to carefully and slowly program your progression (and make no mistake, you should progress each time you train pullups) so that you don't tweak those little parts.

Just one fat man's opinion.

[PressesPeople]

Can you do one pull up? Ok, good. Do 5 sets of 1. Next time, attach 5 lbs to yourself and see if you can do 5 sets of 1. Next workout, attach 10 lbs. Same thing. Get to 15 lbs and then see if you can do sets of 2. So, maybe 4 sets of 2. Then add weight just like before. Keep doing this until you're doing what you consider to be a decent amount of reps.

[dpinsen]

Does your gym have a weight-assisted chin-up machine? Mine does. I'm a fat fuck (5'9", 267lbs) and I use one. The weight stack's plates are 6lbs each, but I stick a 3lb dumbbell on top of the stack to make smaller jumps. E.g., I set the stack to 60lbs yesterday and put the little dumbbell on top so I got a 63lb assist. Was enough of an assist to get a 3 sets of 5.

[RentedOrange]

Here is a guy your BW doing a set of 55 chins. Konstantinovs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLl8rGhJvE

I don't quite see how Konstantinovs doing chins is relevant to me, as he is a professional lifter, about 20 years older and on steriods, but thanks I guess...

Can you do one pull up? Ok, good. Do 5 sets of 1. Next time, attach 5 lbs to yourself and see if you can do 5 sets of 1. Next workout, attach 10 lbs. Same thing. Get to 15 lbs and then see if you can do sets of 2. So, maybe 4 sets of 2. Then add weight just like before. Keep doing this until you're doing what you consider to be a decent amount of reps.

Thank you for a clear answer, the first in this thread.

You did not state your age, which might be relevant.

I should have done this, 21. On Texas Method. Squat 1RM 220kg, Deadlift 250kg, paused Bench 110kg, Press 80kg.

I'd still just like to hear from Rip, as well as where to program them into Texas Method.

V
Squat 5x5
Press/Bench 5x5
Dips 5x5

L
Squat 2x5
Bench/Press 2x5
Curls

I
Squat 1x5
Press/Bench 1x5
Deadlift 1x3

[Tamara Reynolds]

THERE IS NO ONE CLEAR ANSWER.

the point of that thread is: Here are a bunch of things that work. Pick one.

The only time there is consensus is that once you can do ONE CHINUP, you stop doing any other stupid bullshit, and start doing a lot of singles.

As to getting to that first one, as the saying goes, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. in order of "effectiveness":

1) Band-assisted chinups
2) pulldowns of varying grips

If you don't have bands, it's kind of a waste to spend the money on them just for titrating down the assistance on chinups. So if you don't already have bands or don't want to spend the money on bands, a lat pulldown progression will get you to the point of doing a chinup.

Very few people are too heavy to chin. A lot of people just starting out are too weak. If you can't figure out a meaningful way to progress to a full chin given the information in the thread I linked, you might as well sign your transfer form out of this chickenshit outfit with your own blood. Because life just isn't for you.

All of this.

And, you are not too fat to do pullups. At 6'6 at 120 kg, you're kinda skinny. Get stronger.

If you want to use bands, buy a RAGE Pull-up Assist. But, like hisilman said, if you already CAN do a single pullup, then just knock out singles or doubles or triples. Whatever you can do to get volume.

[Clay Simczyk]

Rented O,

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Rip likes Tamara's method and not the other people who don't have Starting Strength Coach under their name.