Would +50lbs Of Fat Help A Person Lift More?

[Toniy]

We're having a borderline academic discussion in the E&P thread.

A guy came on and said he was preparing for a meet, but he's like 300lbs and once he's done with his meet, he wants to drop 60lbs of fat.

He was concerned he wouldn't be able to maintain his current level of strength (i.e. 400lb squat) at a lighter weight.

Then the following sequence of events took place...

1. I posited that Force = Mass x Acceleration.

2. I said taking off 60lbs would mean less Mass, so less Force being produced overall.

3. Then another dude said fat dudes only tend to be stronger because they tend to have more contractile tissue (muscle)

4. I said something along the lines of "That's still Mass... and then the elements of CNS efficiency and fibre recruitment etc. all contribute to the Acceleration element of the equation, don't they?"

5. I then said if you packed 50lbs of fat onto a guy, he's move more weight, and now I'm starting to think I overlooked something critical... and feel a bit stupid. But I was tired when I was posting so whatever.


Then another couple of dudes said "What about wearing a 50lb vest" and "The fat doesn't move the weight".

And now I don't know what to say, because I'm not clever enough.

But you are.

So I came directly here and I hope... HOPE you can bestow some wisdom on us, because I'd like to know the answer, the OP of the original thread would definitely like to know the answer... and I think a bunch of other guys would too.

I'd appreciate if you'd approve this post too, because I've done 80-90% of my best not to be a spaz.

Thanks Mark, all the best man.

Adam

[Mark Rippetoe]

Anytime -- and I mean ANY TIME -- there is a huge loss of bodyweight, some of that loss will be LBM. Same with a large gain in bodyweight. A loss in bodyweight often helps the deadlift because you can get in a better start position. But the squat and the bench usually suffer from a large bodyweight loss. This is of course dependent on the level of training advancement.

[GrimmThing]

Force = Mass x Acceleration. Well, not in the way you indicate. This is more an expression of the application of a external force on a mass. It has little applicability in terms of force producton.

[ColoWayno]

One of the hypotheticals raised was what ratio of fat loss in lbs would translate into an increase in a lift (since you aren't lifting the fat) given the fat could be lipo'd or otherwise magically disappear.
The best answer I saw was, "depends on where the fat is". Fat loss in your toes would be 0/1 (except maybe in lifts where you leave the ground). Fat loss in your head would be close to 1/1 on a squat.

Much silly.

[Brian Jones]

I am the Michelin Man that started that thread and I would only correct the OP on one point in that I could give a hoot less about any loss of strength. I expect that. By competing in a meet and passing a 300 lb squat I have already hit some big goals considering. I want to get the useless weight off my legs, incurr the accompanying backslide in strength and then build up stronger pound for pound. The excess weight is killing my ankles though. Other than that the OP is on the money. It has turned in to an interesting discussion. I was just asking why doesn't 60 lbs lost in fat convert over more readily to weight on the bar if your body is used to moving it during your lifts anyways?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Because the fat is not positioned on you in such a way that it affects the load on the bar. It doesn't add to the moment force you must overcome to lift the barbell.

[Brian Jones]

Fat loss in your head would be close to 1/1 on a squat.

Sweet! My squat will go through the roof . . .

[Peoria]

A loss in bodyweight often helps the deadlift because you can get in a better start position.

Fwiw, Jim Steel said this was his experience with his recent drastic recomposition.

[slipshod77]

Because the fat is not positioned on you in such a way that it affects the load on the bar.

This statement makes sense to me.

It doesn't add to the moment force you must overcome to lift the barbell.

This one is harder for me to understand. Any weight carried above the hip (and to a slightly lesser extent the knee) during the squat contributes to force that most be overcome since it must be moved during the squat. If I was wearing a 60lb vest while squatting, it would seem logical to expect the additional weight would be felt. The weight of the vest or the extra fat would slightly alter the center of gravity for the upper body+barbell. Although as the weight on the barbell increases (500+lbs), the extra 60 lbs becomes more and more negligible.

I completely agree that the process of losing the fat is almost inevitably going to lead to some loss of strength due to some "collateral damage" to your LBM.

[Toniy]

Thanks to Mark and Grimm there... that's cleared it up nicely.