Press 2.0 Bar Return Path Question

[Edge]

After a long layoff for nerve surgery in my arm I have been back on SS for 6 weeks now. During a form check I was asked why I wasn't performing press 2.0.

I watched your video, and everything seemed concerned with the stored energy created making your 'bow' movement. What I thought was lacking after watching was focus on the return path.

I know when performing all other lifts, a vertical path is sought up and down. While watching your students perform the exercise, the return always seemed like the original press, without the exaggerated hip movement. I understand that on the return you are not looking for a stored energy bounce as on the upward movement, but could you clarify the downwards bar path?

Is it still the exaggerated hip movement? or should we be keeping similar to the original?

__________________________________________________ _______________________

My other question is regarding the bounce force generated. As I noted with the lifters hitting close to their maxes, when the bounce doesn't generate enough force to clear the top of the head, it seems the movement has to be halted (or bash the bar into your forehead which would kind of suck) losing all generated energy and turning the lift into a grind, which is near impossible if the bounce didn't get the weight up.

How I understood the original methodology of the press from the book, is that this bow shape was always created and used to maintain the straight bar path, but it was a more strict lift (in the sense of less body involvement, explosive lift) with the hip movement brought in more slowly as the bar cleared your head and repeated on the way down.

One thing that always stuck with my in the book was the historical references of lifters lean back and it getting to the point where it was almost a bench press on your feet. I thought the point of the press was that it was not an assisted lift (like a push press) but a strict upper body exercise, with the hip drive generated a by product of the necessary movement to keep the bar on a vertical path.

Press 2.0 seems like a push press, just removing the knee movement. You're still using your posterior chain to create the momentum required to get the bar up.

I guess what all my random thoughts are leading to is if moving more weight and as paraphrased from the press 2.0 tutorial 'you're moving more things, which is good' why was the push press never called for over the press as it seems to fit the same criteria you use when calling the press 2.0 superior to the press 1.0.

Thanks for reading.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The heavier the bar, the more tendency it will have to come back down in a straight vertical line. You must accommodate that line by getting your head out of the way. We don't emphasize this because we find that most people figure it out pretty quickly without having to take time coaching it.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________

It is a serious misunderstanding of the press technique to think that the posterior chain is somehow involved. The rebound is off the front, the ANTERIOR muscles, from the ribcage and abs down the quads to the knees. Do not think about a backward hips motion or you ruin the timing of the movement. This press has the actual pressing motion starting at the beginning of the movement, not the top of the forehead like a push press or a jerk, so the two are not analogous.

[Robert NL]

Mark,

After reading your reply, reading ssbbt3 and watching the pressing 2.0 video it seems to me that the new pressing technique is actually a half olympic press followed by a half military.

What I mean. In the Olympic press the back is arched twice;
1st at the start using the strecht reflex of the anterior chain to get the weight over head.
Than the back is quickly arched again combined with straightening the arms. The anterior chain agian contracts the straighten the spine and finishes the movement.

Pressing 2.0 seems to only incorperate the 1st back arch. Finishing the movement is done on arm/shoulder strength(as in a military).

Any insights as to why you choose it to be so?

Maintaining enough shouder/triceps work?
(much) easier to teach?

If I completely misunderstood please enlighten me.

[quad]

This question was answered many times Robert, he chooses this press because it allows more mass to be used and more weight. How is it easier to teach?
If your concern is aesthetics don't worry, it will build your shoulders and triceps as well as your traps; it will also add abs, quads, glutes.

[Mark Rippetoe]

That's precisely what it is, Bobby. You win a cookie. The 2nd layback doesn't need to be taught, you'll do it naturally when the weight slows down enough when it gets heavy. So I chose not to clutter up the teaching method with complexity. In the meantime, just see how strong you can get it. Be more like Serge Reding and less like mere mortal men.

[quad]

My previous post is useless, I misunderstood what Robert said, I don't speak Texan very well.

[Robert NL]

That's precisely what it is, Bobby. You win a cookie. The 2nd layback doesn't need to be taught, you'll do it naturally when the weight slows down enough when it gets heavy. So I chose not to clutter up the teaching method with complexity.

I understand that an olympic uses more muscle mass than a Military. Thus more weight all logical. Just missed the 2nd layback in the teaching. Thanks for claring that up.

In the meantime, just see how strong you can get it. Be more like Serge Reding and less like mere mortal men.

I'll work on that this afternoon.

[lewabbit]

That's precisely what it is, Bobby. Be more like Serge Reding and less like mere mortal men.

U must commend you on your mastery of the epic witty quote.

[Mark Rippetoe]

My previous post is useless, I misunderstood what Robert said, I don't speak Texan very well.

At least you are beginning to grasp the fact that you have a problem.

[quad]

Yeah, I do but then again who doesn't? I hope it gets better as I age.