One of the signs of the coming apocalypse...

[hatmanii]

We could be eating lions.

This has changed my whole perspective on the issue. Where do I donate my money?

[TomV]

In Australia you can already by Kangaroo at your local supermarket, apparently we're going to be seeing a lot more of the meat for sale soon as they exist in ridiculous numbers sometimes and are very cheap to graze.

[Cmanuel]

Something like this is at least 10-15 years out (ignore what the article says about 5-10 years).

There are going to be significant barriers to commercialization (at least in the US). Just off the top of my head:
- Price point - I can see this as being an expensive product. That will have to be fixed before its marketable
- Regulations - How on earth would this be regulated? I wouldn't even know where to begin! I can imagine it would be at least as stringent as new drug applications, which can take ~5 years to get approved.
- Consumer acceptability - If US citizens won't accept irradiated food (which btw is perfectly fine and which probably results in the safest form of finished product out of all the commercial processing technologies), then what makes you think they will ever accept "test tube" food?

[Cmanuel]

I love my meat but the processes used to raise cheap meat are pretty darn frightening from both a cruelty and a human health perspective.

Could you please cite some articles or sources that back up these claims? Food Inc. did a good job of spreading fear of our food system, but that stupid movie is so incredibly biased, and in some instances just plain wrong.

[matclone]

I've not seen Food Inc, but I found Fast Food Nation (the book, with citations) to be somewhat informative and persuasive. Anecdotally, one occasionally reads of e-coli outbreaks, and I'll be damned if I haven't had what I'm sure was food poisoning a couple of times in my life (although I'm older than you)--the most recent after eating a Ceaser salad (and me not being a salad person). One might also draw some conclusions from driving past a factory farm (there is one in western Nebraska on Hwy 76). I'm certainly not against eating meat but I think it's good to think about where it (and other food) comes from.

[Cmanuel]

I've not seen Food Inc, but I found Fast Food Nation (the book, with citations) to be somewhat informative and persuasive. Anecdotally, one occasionally reads of e-coli outbreaks, and I'll be damned if I haven't had what I'm sure was food poisoning a couple of times in my life (although I'm older than you)--the most recent after eating a Ceaser salad (and me not being a salad person). One might also draw some conclusions from driving past a factory farm (there is one in western Nebraska on Hwy 76). I'm certainly not against eating meat but I think it's good to think about where it (and other food) comes from.

Thanks for your input.

Did you have a fecal culture performed by a lab to determine it was e. coli poisoning? The dangerous form of e coli is harbored almost exclusively in the gut of ruminant animals, meaning it is directly associated with the fecal contamination of a food. It is rare (though certainly plausible) for a salad to become contaminated with e coli, but salads are more often implicated in staph intoxication. I would have to know your particular symptoms to give you a better idea of what you may have had.

Because e coli is so common within the gut of cattle, its very hard to completely eliminate the possibility of it contaminating finished product, especially ground beef since it utilizes trimmings from multiple animals (multiple sources=multiple chances for fecal contamination). In fact, I would argue that it is impossible to completely eliminate the threat of e coli in ground beef. As long as ground beef is popular in America, I think the focus needs to be on consumer education, since e coli is easily killed by 140*F cooking temperatures. I NEVER eat an undercooked burger, thats just asking to get sick. Whole muscle cuts are essentially sterile on the inside so they are a different case than ground beef. Note that I am only talking about e coli in beef and not other products. E coli in other products such as spinach is unacceptable and usually there is some sort of break down in the HACCP plan that the company is employing.

People take for granted how safe our food supply is in America. It really is by far the safest in the world. One of my committee members recently gave a lecture on food safety in other countries, complete with videos and pictures. It was absolutely horrid, no regard for food safety at all (many of the countries couldn't afford to employ safe practices). It really makes you realize how good we have it in the US.

[matclone]

I never had any testing for e-coli. I never even went to the doctor. I just starting vomiting about 30-45 minutes after eating the salad and kept vomiting all night long and couldn't eat anything for about 24 hours. I didn't know whether it was the salad, or the miso dressing I put on it, but from what I know, and you mention, it seems that greens are a common form of poisoning (where it occurs).

We may have a safe food system in the U.S. relative to other countries, but food safety is still of concern. Charlie Rose had some experts on his show fairly recently: Jeffrey Bender (prof) and Michael Moss, and Michael Pallan(?)(journalists) talking about this subject and one of them, to the question whether there was anything he avoids eating, suggested that he would not eat ground beef--probably because of the process you describe. But I think you're saying that a well-cooked burger will be safe.

[BryanM]

This guy thinks having just the right amount of poo in the food supply would be a good thing.

Re: Farm animals

It's a business - free roaming chickens who don't shiss (that's a combination of shit and piss - birds only have one fun hole you see) on each other isn't very profitable. And common sense tells you mammals don't lactate without being pregnant and/or loaded with hormones - milk cows don't have super fun happy lives even if they're not pumped until they bleed.

* The dismantling process is also probably not too enjoyable no matter how much of a big stupid moo cow you are.

* Mickey D's tripe meat has material from like a hundred cows in a single patty. Nom.

* I just learned spinach used to be a slang term for marijuana, so when Pop Eye takes his "spinach" he's really just getting high and that's where all his might comes from.

* Uh.

would i eat it....uh no it was made in a lab. if they grew me a new leg after i lost one yes id wear it.

Not only would I wear the leg, I would eat it. I would then ask for another one. And then another.

Reminds me of the "authentic" or "natural" diamond ads the semi-terrorist organization DeBeers ran. When the fabrication process on carbon results in diamond much closer to perfection than anything dug out of the ground, it's silly.

[Cmanuel]

I never had any testing for e-coli. I never even went to the doctor. I just starting vomiting about 30-45 minutes after eating the salad and kept vomiting all night long and couldn't eat anything for about 24 hours. I didn't know whether it was the salad, or the miso dressing I put on it, but from what I know, and you mention, it seems that greens are a common form of poisoning (where it occurs).

We may have a safe food system in the U.S. relative to other countries, but food safety is still of concern. Charlie Rose had some experts on his show fairly recently: Jeffrey Bender (prof) and Michael Moss, and Michael Pallan(?)(journalists) talking about this subject and one of them, to the question whether there was anything he avoids eating, suggested that he would not eat ground beef--probably because of the process you describe. But I think you're saying that a well-cooked burger will be safe.

From your rapid onset of less than 24 hours, I would venture to say you had some sort of intoxication, not infection. Sounds like staph to me.

Yes, a well cooked hamburger will be safe from E coli. Its basic biology. You heat the burger to a minimum internal temperature of 140*F and e coli will not survive. Its sad to say that the paralyzed girl in the example charlie gave could have been avoided if she had just cooked her burger properly.

Concerning that charlie rose interview... i just read the transcript and have a few things to say about it.

I really Like bender's points. He essentially says:
- we need to be advocates of consumer education about the risk of eating undercooked ground beef
- we will really never be able to completely get rid of it
- we need to investigate various strategies of reducing the pathogen
- We need to look into irradiation (Yes, i totally agree with this)

Irradiation would completely eliminate any threat of having bacteria in food that may be harmful. But, americans probably will never adopt it.

Michael Pollan -
He really annoys me. He is so incredibly biased... I read his two books and he is so picky choosey with his citations! Its ridiculous. He is Anti food science plain and simple.

Some of the things he says are just plain wrong. He has been trying to say for the longest time that O157 e coli came about due to our feeding practices of cattle. What???? Thats just stupid. There is NO way you can prove that, and it really isnt a "new" pathogen per say, we just acquired discriminatory detection methods in the early 80s to differentiate this type of e coli from the rest.

[matclone]

Sounds like you know what you're talking about. Maybe you're in grad school at CSU?

I've not heard of staph intox. I will look it up.

Based on what you've said, I will go back to occasionally eating burgers. I admit I was avoiding them--which is tough when weightlifting--although the other day when I went out, I ordered one, but got buffalo instead of beef.

As to the politics of food, I think there's legitimate concern that some producers may not do the right thing with respect to safety--because the bottom line tends to trump all other considerations. That being said, certainly science has a role in food production (pasteurization comes to mind). Thanks for your comments on the Rose interview. I've not read Pollan's books, but yeah, it's unfortunate when misinformation enters the picture (e.g., the example you gave).