Medical Question

[David Werner]

Hi Rip,
I'm a med student thats been following your program of and on for years with a little crossfit, running, and 5/3/1. I'm done with the xfit bullshit after finding out more about the program and the people behind it. I just got back onto strictly SS after taking the medical boards. Was studying so much dont know where my lifts are at, so I figured I do SS for a bit till I'm caught back up and then move to TM. I'm 33, 6'1, and got up from 180 up to 206 pounds, so far with GOMAD and lots of food. So I guess my first question is since I had a little lay off should I do SS till I stall than swich to TM? My main goal is a 500ish deadlift and now I'm at 405.

Second question was did I read somewhere that your coming out with a new edition of SS?

Last question is I probably want to go into sports med and was rounding in the sports med clinic today and my attending said that the only people to die sooner than hardcore runners are heavy weightlifters due to the valsava move causing damage to the tunica intima of the arteries leading to MIs and many olympic/ powerlifters dyeing in there 50's. I've personally never heard this before and have been into lifting for about 5 years now. I was wondering your experience and research on this. I consider you more of an expert on lifting and its affects rather thans this sports med doc who was pretty young and he also didnt cite his sources.

Otherwise wanted to say thanks for some great books and answering questions on the forum. Very cool of you. Hope to meet you one day.

Sincerely,
David W.

P.S. Are the certs for people who want to couch the lifts or also for ones who want a little deeper instruction into the lifts?

[Mark Rippetoe]

my attending said that the only people to die sooner than hardcore runners are heavy weightlifters due to the valsava move causing damage to the tunica intima of the arteries leading to MIs and many olympic/ powerlifters dyeing in there 50's. I've personally never heard this before and have been into lifting for about 5 years now. I was wondering your experience and research on this. I consider you more of an expert on lifting and its affects rather thans this sports med doc who was pretty young and he also didnt cite his sources.

The rest of this is discussed elsewhere. But this quote in interesting. Guys in your position need to learn how to say, "I'd like to see your data, ancedotal or otherwise. The data. Please."

There no data. I'll give him $1000 if he posts the "data" here. Tell him. He repeats bullshit and thereby creates false "truth" under color of authority, and thus is born The Conventional Wisdom.

[flahertyj]

Wow, that's simply amazing a young medical professional would spout something like that without any facts to back it up. Tell him to stop giving the medical profession a bad name and to be prepared with factual data before lying.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It's not amazing at all. It is THE NORM. They all do it, every single day. There was an interesting paper a couple of years ago that showed that about half of the advice given in a typical doctor's office was false and/or unsupported by data. And most of the data is shit anyway. By very careful about who you listen too. Especially me.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

A classic example of conflating a physiologic endpoint of unclear significance with an important patient-oriented outcome. There is, in fact, conflicting evidence in the literature, with some studies showing a decrease in arterial compliance (measured by various techniques, none of them really ideal) with "strength training" or "resistance training." That is a physiologic endpoint--perhaps interesting in itself, useful as a hypothesis generator...and of completely unclear signficance.

No credible study that I am aware of, or that I was able to find this morning with a PubMed search, shows that strength training causes pathological hemodynamic responses or degeneration of previously healthy arterial intima or media in human populations.

No credible study that I am aware of, or that I was able to find this morning with a PubMEd search, shows that any untoward patient-oriented outcome (death, disease, or disability) is promoted by strength training in healthy human populations.

However, there is an abundance of literature indicating the opposite: that strength training is salutary, improves quality of life, and is inversely associated with risk of death from all causes.

Unless and until your attending collects $1000 from Rip, I must regretfully harbor the suspicion that he is talking out his very educated butthole. As you progress in your career and observe your physician colleagues and the medical literature, you will come to learn, and accept, that this is not an extraordinary phenomenon. Sorry.

[flahertyj]

It's not amazing at all. It is THE NORM. They all do it, every single day. There was an interesting paper a couple of years ago that showed that about half of the advice given in a typical doctor's office was false and/or unsupported by data. And most of the data is shit anyway. By very careful about who you listen too. Especially me.

See the thing Rip, I have questioned you and done research on other strength gaining methods and have indeed tried at least 5 - 7 other training methods; yet none have developed strength as good as Starting Strength and Starr's 5X5 Intermediate MadCow (I'm on right now). Based on what I've seen and the results I've felt I know that you know your shit and do your research.

Here's something else you might find interesting, I've had pain in the right side of my hip for many years and been to two chiropractors to look at it, 3 months each and several hundred dollars later, no improvement from their "medical methods". After doing 1.5 years total of StartingStrength and MadCow combined I now hardly feel any pain and have much more mobility/flexibility than before. Who would have thought that proper research, healthy eating, and heavy lifting would improve the human body?

P.S. Thank you for enabling me to get past the hip pain with your training advice Rip.

[BrewinBombers]

From what I've seen, weightlifters don't generally have as much hair on their heads as the rest of the population; it seems difficult to ascertain to any degree of certainty if they dye any earlier than the population or not. I kid.

Let's pretend for a second that there was data to support the claim. You can't stop thinking critically after you see the data:

1. If Weightlifters do die from MI from the valsava maneuver, is that because those people were pre-disposed to MIs and didn't take proper precautions?
2. Have other external factors, such as steroids, been factored out of the death rate?
3. Who conducted the study and why?
4. Ask number 3 again.
5. What constitutes the population that was studied? Elite athletes? Casual Weightlifters?
6. What was the methodology of data collection and population selection?

On and on and on.

[acon120]

'Listen carefully...'

Be very careful about who you listen too. Especially me.

[IndividualThoughtPatterns]

I'm done with the xfit bullshit after finding out more about the program and the people behind it.

What's with this part? I never did crossfit but what happened?

[Mark E. Hurling]

Last question is I probably want to go into sports med and was rounding in the sports med clinic today and my attending said that the only people to die sooner than hardcore runners are heavy weightlifters due to the valsava move causing damage to the tunica intima of the arteries leading to MIs and many olympic/ powerlifters dyeing in there 50's.

Read some of the ooooold books about strength training from the early 20th Century. This old saw goes at least as far back as the 19th Century about strong men dying young. It wasn't true then and it still isn't. The only sport this has some validity in is football, and it's not from the strength training. It's from the injuries and not dropping the body weight or keeping up a strength training or exercise routine when the playing days are over.