Strengthening the neck after C6/7 disc herniation

[Culican]

i had herniations at C5-6 and C6-7 19 years ago when I was 39. After 10 weeks on ibuprofen therapy (prescribed by a neurosurgeon who wanted to try that first before considering surgery) I recovered except for a residual parasthesia in my left forearm, thumb, and first finger, which all persist until this day.

I resumed lifing including squats and deadlifts and have had no further problems. I have not done any special neck exercises.

I posted more information including my MRI report in this forum previously.

http://startingstrength.com/resource...326#post369326

It always amazes me when I see people in the gym lifing and turning their neck at a 45 degree angle to see themselves in the mirror at the same time. They are just inviting problems.

[David Kirkham]

I would listen to Rip. I have arthritis C3-C4 and a herniated C5-C6 with all the same symptoms you describe, just throw in the worst headaches you can imagine. I followed his advise and the headaches subsided. I Dead lifted 290 last night (2 1/2 months post heart attack). I think if you listen to him you will feel better. If you don't--good luck.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Rip, why does neck strengthening exercises not help with disc injuries? Wouldn't strengthening the surrounding musculature cause less pressure to the compressed disc at the site of the herniation?

Why would you think that a lifter's neck was weak, and that weakness was the problem? Mashing your head into the bench makes your neck strong. It can also fuck up your cervical disks, as can kid football and 9000 other things prior to this presentation.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes, I apologize, I got that. I was referring to the isometric neck extensor stuff, shrugs, etc. The physical therapists make sure that I do not move my neck around, and they are very careful even when they want me to test my range of motion (they basically told me to avoid neck flexion at all costs).

What do you think you're doing with your neck muscles in a squat or a deadlift? You think maybe they are working isometrically to anchor the cervical spine, to which the traps are attached in origin?

By the way, my neurologist wants me to avoid all overhead work forevermore. I do not want to give up OHP in the long term. What would you recommend? My plan was to start very light at some point, focus on posture and form, and progress normally.

Had you gone to this neurologist with an injury to your penis, he would have recommended that you stop pressing overhead. You're just going to have to reason your way through this problem yourself.

[crc]

This is just another personal anecdote - I'm about your age and had this same type of injury a year and a half ago. I did a heavy power clean workout and then got stacked up on my neck in jiu-jitsu class later that day. I didn't have surgery and am pressing a little more than I was pressing pre-injury. Keys for me were:

- fixed postural issues and maintained constant awareness of neck position during lifts. I had some bad habits which aggravated the injury.
- avoided wide-grip pullups(chins were fine), power cleans, any neck extension exercises. I tried the neck harness once and it was a dumb idea.
- got a pillow that let me sleep on my back with neck in a very neutral position.
- got back to overhead pressing as soon as possible. I think once I got the hang of differentiating the difference between discomfort in the injured area and impending reinjury I started to push myself harder and made a quicker recovery.

I also do some isometrics for the neck every morning and tried to add some more rear deltoid work. No scientific basis for either one of these, it just made my neck feel better so I stuck with it. I should probably add that this particular injury is something I think I was prone to due to previous neck strains(bailed backflip, jiu-jitsu) and terrible posture. I feel like this is something that can be prevented but maybe it's more about avoiding habitual bad positions rather than adding exercises for the neck.

[ekoeler]

Wow, thanks for all of the advice and commiseration everyone.

I understand our situations are different without you having sergical intervention but I'm
pretty sure returning nerve function would be accomplished the same way. You need to figure out a way to fire that pathway under increasing loads and do it often.

Yes, this is and was my plan from the start. I am just beginning to get back into it, but my tricep and shoulder are pathetically weak. I was just barely able to bench 70 pounds last night (I was working with 175 the week before this happened). I will keep at it, and I am going to start rotating in overhead pressing, perhaps with dumbbells to start.

I would listen to Rip... I think if you listen to him you will feel better. If you don't--good luck.

Of course, that is why I asked him. I value his experience and insights very highly.

What do you think you're doing with your neck muscles in a squat or a deadlift? You think maybe they are working isometrically to anchor the cervical spine, to which the traps are attached in origin?

I don't know what the hell I was doing with my neck muscles in those lifts prior to my injury, but I sure know what they will doing going forward. I admit that I paid little attention to my head position in the past. I am much more conscious of this now, for obvious reasons. Last night, I was paying very close attention, and I can clearly see how the various neck muscles work isometrically in the big lifts to stabilize the head and spine.

Had you gone to this neurologist with an injury to your penis, he would have recommended that you stop pressing overhead. You're just going to have to reason your way through this problem yourself.

Haha, too true. I had every intention of ignoring her advice from the moment it left her mouth, but I suppose I wanted a little validation. I have been around long enough to know to take everyone's advice with a grain of salt and figure things out for myself.

[wakk0]

Why would you think that a lifter's neck was weak, and that weakness was the problem? Mashing your head into the bench makes your neck strong. It can also fuck up your cervical disks, as can kid football and 9000 other things prior to this presentation.

Wouldn't a protruding disc cause a weakness / instability in the surrounding musculature since the muscle would have to be working around a disc? In my head I am sort of envisioning placing a rubber band around my thumb and index finger of my right hand (the rubber band simulating the surrounding musculature) and stretching it taut. If I then put my index finger of my left hand (simulating the protruding cervical disc) in the center of the space between the thumb and index finger of my right hand and slightly pull against the rubber band then won't that cause a point of weakness in the rubber band whenever the band gets lengthened (simulating muscle use) where my left finger is pulling against the band? I am sure this is a poor example / thought experiment on what's going on here, but this is the best I can do with my limited understanding of the subject.

[Frayedknot]

In reference to my earlier post...

My decision to go against doctor'a orders was heavily influenced by this site. Sully's article "Barbell Training is Big Medicine," Brian Jones' battle, various articles on barbell training and PT, and the various posts by many members that lead me to believe that doing nothing or minimal physical activity would not make me better. That it would start a path of weakness and frustration. Hell, I could already tell I was getting depressed because I had lost so much that I had earned. It was unacceptable to allow myself to not fight. My goal was to protect and strengthen my neck by not doing anything to irritate it (in the gym and at work/home) and to demand my stricken muscles to respond to signals the barbell work generated. I encourage you to read, read, read and form your own conclusions based on what you learn, your particular circumstances and your long-term goals in life. Some doctors have good intentions but lack the education and/or experience to make sound recovery plans. It is YOUR responsibility as a patient to educate yourself and ensure the medical community is meeting your needs.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Wouldn't a protruding disc cause a weakness / instability in the surrounding musculature since the muscle would have to be working around a disc? In my head I am sort of envisioning placing a rubber band around my thumb and index finger of my right hand (the rubber band simulating the surrounding musculature) and stretching it taut. If I then put my index finger of my left hand (simulating the protruding cervical disc) in the center of the space between the thumb and index finger of my right hand and slightly pull against the rubber band then won't that cause a point of weakness in the rubber band whenever the band gets lengthened (simulating muscle use) where my left finger is pulling against the band? I am sure this is a poor example / thought experiment on what's going on here, but this is the best I can do with my limited understanding of the subject.

The disc affects the nerves, which affect the muscles.

[David Kirkham]

Just a note to all you C spine sufferers. I use a down pillow and it makes a world of difference. I really focus on good posture. Don't throw your head back on dead lifts or squats. I put a small mark on the floor in front of my squat rack. I put a small weight on the floor in front of me for dead lifts and I focus really hard on the marks. Finally Rip told me to get a cervical traction devise that sits on top of a door. I use it when the headaches get bad (thankfully I haven't used it in a few months). These things have really helped my neck pain.