Greysteel mon fri mon Texas method vs hlm

[Bbinck1]

I do not understand why doing the Texas method described in barbell prescription as greysteel method/variant is more stressful than a weekly HLM for a masters athlete. I am trying to decide which intermediate program to use as I had to do a short LP after a month layoff for wrist surgery. I am now convinced I have reached the end stages of LP and am trying to plan out strategy moving forward. I understand from practical programming why classic Texas method with 2 hard days is worse but it would seem to me if you do Mon Friday Mon rotation that the recovery time would be more than enough to mitigate age related difficulties. And it would seem that doing six training sessions in a two week period (as in HLM) would be harder and more difficult for a master to recover from than 4 (as in greysteel variant Texas method).

[Mark Rippetoe]

Since I don't have that memorized, could you detail your problem for me?

[Bbinck1]

Essentially if I understand it correctly the greysteel variant is a modification that uses 2 days a week. But a three day cycle. So you would do volume day on Monday. Friday would be light/recovery day and the next Monday intensity day. Volume day is lowered to 4x5 sets. The description makes it sound like only a very dedicated master should do something like this and most should do a HLM. I am mid 40s, weigh 205 and have 5rm of 235 on bench, 5rm of 310 on squat and a 1rm of about 400 in deadlift. I recover fairly bad because of sleep. Is a regular 3 day a week HLM a better choice than this age modified Texas Method. I realize you can’t say for sure but just wanted your educated guess. I know there is no way I can do the classic Texas method. I just will not recover. It just seems to me that the Texas method greysteel variant looks like very infrequent stimuli and I don’t see how that would make it so much harder than a regular 3 day a week HLM. But maybe I don’t understand the relative intensities well enough.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

You need to recognize that both programs are stressful...they are, after all, intermediate programs. The loads an intermediate can handle are heavier than the loads he could handle as a novice, and he needs to impose a heavier training stress to drive adaptation than a novice program can accommodate.

While a generic TM is generally more "stressful" than a corresponding generic HLM, nowhere in BBRx is it claimed that the Greysteel Texas is more stressful than a generic HLM program. In fact, I think it's rather less stressful. Note that GSTM does not put the deadlift on volume day, but HLM puts the deadlift on heavy day. This means that heavy day on HLM is more of a ballbreaker than volume day on GSTM. Light day on the HLM template in the book has the press at 3 sets of 5, whereas in GSTM we "chase singles" on the pressing movement, meaning there's less volume and less tonnage. So recovery day on GSTM is less stressful than light day on HLM. It is true, however, that Intensity day on GSTM is heavier than heavy day on HLM, and the volume-intensity product (tonnage) is going to be higher on intensity day too, because of the dead. Finally, as you note, GSTM spreads the cycle across MFM, whereas generic HLM is MWF...but it is of course trivial to come up with a 2-day HLM variant (which we also use at Greysteel) or just go to Heavy-Light (as described in the book, and which we also also use at Greysteel, along with 4-day splits, a heavily modified 5/3/1, etc, etc.).

The GSTM is a very specific modification that has proven to be productive and workable in Masters at our shop...but not for all of them. For some it's too grueling. For others it's not grueling enough. It was included to serve as an example of just one of a gajillion ways that TM can be modified. Individualization is the key for the intermediate Master. Experience and a bit of clear thinking allow for a first-order approximation of appropriate programming for a particular Master finishing the novice. But at the end of the day there is no cookie-cutter approach to program prescription at this level and with this population. Thus, our chapters on both TM and HLM include extensive discussion and examples of how both programs can be tailored to the needs and capacities of the individual athlete.

[Bbinck1]

Thank you for that explanation. That makes complete sense. It is frustrating to hear because it sounds like intermediate programming may be a fair bit of trial and error.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

Thank you for that explanation. That makes complete sense. It is frustrating to hear because it sounds like intermediate programming may be a fair bit of trial and error.

We prefer to think of it as calibration.

[Bbinck1]

We prefer to think of it as calibration.

Ha! Agree that is more palatable. I just want the cookie cutter approach and wish it was easier. I like you practice acute care medicine and take call etc. It is sometimes difficult for me to tease out what works and what is spinning my wheels. Your book is great by the way and I bought a copy for my 72 year old mother.

[Splat]

We prefer to think of it as calibration.

One thing I have never gotten a grasp of is how do you do this? How/when do you know you need to tweak a program ( going from vanilla TM to 4 day TM ) vs changing your entire paradigm ( TM vs 5/3/1 )? What do you look for when determining whether someone needs volume or intensity?

[Chris Lippke]

We prefer to think of it as calibration.

Perhaps your clients need a good talking to, if you don't mind my saying so. Perhaps... a bit more. My clients, sir, they didn't care for the GSTM at first. One of them actually stole a pack of matches, and tried to burn The Barbell Prescription. But I... "calibrated" them, sir. And when my wife tried to prevent me from doing the program, I... "calibrated" her.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

Ha! Agree that is more palatable. I just want the cookie cutter approach and wish it was easier. I like you practice acute care medicine and take call etc. It is sometimes difficult for me to tease out what works and what is spinning my wheels. Your book is great by the way and I bought a copy for my 72 year old mother.

Thanks. I hope she goes for it. Amazing things can happen.