Serious question about Smith machine

[Jason Donaldson]

I didn't say barbell’s cause them significantly, but even Rip says you will get your numbers up till at some point you get hurt.

Which never happens with machines?

And Rip has said that you'll eventually get injured in life, somehow, not that you'll eventually get injured under the bar.

Lifters have to deal with injuries, not because they lift, but because they're a subset of the set known as "everyone".

Your assertion now appears to be that lifters using machines suffer injury less than lifters using barbells. Burden of proof is on you first for your assertion, so how do you support it, and in what specific terms?

As to your previous assertion, "wear and tear" is a term generally referring to accumulated damage over time from the normal use of something. Are you saying that the normal use of barbells causes more accumulated damage over time than the normal use of machines?

[Mark Rippetoe]

McBee, you don't happen to be a Physical Therapist, do you?

[McBee99]

But you did say that machines are better.

In that they strip away the skill component.

Heavy squatting does take big strength, but also requires skill.

A big bench is a great display of strength, but not necessarily an accurate measure of strength.

Which never happens with machines?

And Rip has said that you'll eventually get injured in life, somehow, not that you'll eventually get injured under the bar.

Lifters have to deal with injuries, not because they lift, but because they're a subset of the set known as "everyone".

Your assertion now appears to be that lifters using machines suffer injury less than lifters using barbells. Burden of proof is on you first for your assertion, so how do you support it, and in what specific terms?

As to your previous assertion, "wear and tear" is a term generally referring to accumulated damage over time from the normal use of something. Are you saying that the normal use of barbells causes more accumulated damage over time than the normal use of machines?

If you eliminate peak forces, you will be unlikely to injure yourself, regardless of the equipment.

McBee, you don't happen to be a Physical Therapist, do you?

No, I agree with Rip’s assertion that most of them are worthless.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Why is the elimination of the balance component a positive aspect of machine use?

A better question might be, why are we having this pointless conversation?

[McBee99]

Why is the elimination of the balance component a positive aspect of machine use?

A better question might be, why are we having this pointless conversation?

Balance is skill specific.

Why let my ability to balance inhibit the intensity I am able to perform the exercise with.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Balance is not skill specific, since not falling down is characteristic of all normal human movement patterns. And if you are not balanced, you are not able to involve as much muscle mass in the movement and apply as much force during the movement. Are you suggesting that your giant lumbar machine is better for developing strength than a deadlift?

[McBee99]

Balance is not skill specific, since not falling down is characteristic of all normal human movement patterns. And if you are not balanced, you are not able to involve as much muscle mass in the movement and apply as much force during the movement. Are you suggesting that your giant lumbar machine is better for developing strength than a deadlift?

In the sense that a great surfer wont be a great ice skater, and vice versa, even though both skills require tremendous balance, it is.

Yes balance is crucial in being able to apply the most force, which makes the machine approach very appealing to some.

I am suggesting that it can do tremendous things for the lumbar spine, nothing else.

[Jason Donaldson]

If you eliminate peak forces, you will be unlikely to injure yourself, regardless of the equipment.

I'm sure everyone with carpal tunnel syndrome from typing on a keyboard all day will be glad to hear this.

[Shiva Kaul]

Why let my ability to balance inhibit the intensity I am able to perform the exercise with.

Because intensity in a contrived, unnatural, and incomplete exercise is pointless, for both training and testing of strength.