Thoughts on Pitbulls?

[Al_Orange]

You Brits are an amazing bunch of folk, as wal would say. Who do you let determine your "needs"? The King?

Well we have some vestiges of democracy remaining so I'd hope it's determined by representatives of the people carefully weighing up the options... But maybe I'm naive?

I believe in personal freedom but we live in a society so we all sacrifice some freedoms for (hopefully) the greater good. The most obvious and simplest is the requirement to have a driving license and traffic regulations. I personally need neither to be a safe driver but I'm very glad we have them.

[zinedine kilbane]

1. Bred for fighting other dogs, which is seldom done with any of the pit bulls you have seen.
2. Please show us all these statistics.
?

Does Breed Not Exist?, by Steve Sailer - The Unz Review

Best I can tell pit bull type dogs make up around 5-10% of total dogs in America and account for 60-70% of fatal attacks. This seems like a large issue.


What are the Dog Breeds That Frequently Bite Humans? | KNR

U.S. Statistics on Dog Bites 2021 (19 Breeds Compared)

51 people were killed by a pit bull in America in 2021, while there is estimated to be up to 18 million pit bulls in the country. I’m not sure that ratio is worthy of the response they get

50 people a year is a fair amount. There probably 10 times that amount of serious attacks/maimings that don’t end in a death.

Like the cost benefit here seems very costly. That’s a treasonable amount of preventable injuries just to have a dog that you think looks pretty. Like there’s no practical benefit here compared to a Labrador or something ?

[gadders]

I would have a Standard Poodle. Very smart dogs.

I have a cockerpoo. Very smart until the spaniel part of his brain overrides the poodle part.

Hey Rip, I know you're a huge dog lover, even going so far as to say that people who don't like dogs can, "get fucked". I'm curious how you feel about Pits? I personally have had very little experience with them, mainly just seeing videos of them either attacking people/animals or dressed up in a tutu being extremely sweet. I know a lot of people have strong opinions about them one way or the other, so I wanted to know how you felt about them?

I'm not saying there aren't any good ones, but there seem to be an awful lot of bad ones, and given their size pit-type dogs can obviously do more damage.

This is a good article on the topic, at least as it pertains to the UK: Why Are So Many Children Dying to Dogs in the UK?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Does Breed Not Exist?, by Steve Sailer - The Unz Review

Best I can tell pit bull type dogs make up around 5-10% of total dogs in America and account for 60-70% of fatal attacks. This seems like a large issue.


What are the Dog Breeds That Frequently Bite Humans? | KNR

U.S. Statistics on Dog Bites 2021 (19 Breeds Compared)



50 people a year is a fair amount. There probably 10 times that amount of serious attacks/maimings that don’t end in a death.

Like the cost benefit here seems very costly. That’s a treasonable amount of preventable injuries just to have a dog that you think looks pretty. Like there’s no practical benefit here compared to a Labrador or something ?

You don't seem to be particularly intelligent, you're not reading anything but media bullshit, and you're not reading it critically. If there are more "pit bulls" in the US than any other breed, what would you expect to see in terms of number of "pit bulls" in bite incidents? How many of those incidents occurred during a trespassing offense, or as the result of an attack by the bitee? Why are there no Belgian Malinois numbers listed? More importantly, what kind of dog do you have?

I'm not saying there aren't any good ones, but there seem to be an awful lot of bad ones, and given their size pit-type dogs can obviously do more damage.

This is a good article on the topic, at least as it pertains to the UK: Why Are So Many Children Dying to Dogs in the UK?

Pit bulls average 70-80 pounds. My friendly Akbash/Kangal boy is 120 now, and still growing. And what has happened to the UK population between 2001 and 2021 that might be a factor?

[Kansan]

I can't find anywhere that the Pit Bull is the most popular dog breed in America.
Looks like French Bulldog is #1.

[zinedine kilbane]

You don't seem to be particularly intelligent, you're not reading anything but media bullshit, and you're not reading it critically. If there are more "pit bulls" in the US than any other breed, what would you expect to see in terms of number of "pit bulls" in bite incidents? How many of those incidents occurred during a trespassing offense, or as the result of an attack by the bitee? Why are there no Belgian Malinois numbers listed? More importantly, what kind of dog do you have?

Ok, do you don’t have any counter arguments. No data on how they’re safe or reasoning why they would be?

Yeah to be honest none of the data is seems 100% compelling but every single source seems to have pit bulls and related as both a huge absolute proportion of attacks and hugely overrepresented in proportion to their numbers. This coupled with the basic common sense of it being a relatively large attack dog is very compelling. It could be a big counter pit bull conspiracy but why just pit bulls? Why wouldn’t this extend to other scary looking dogs..? The conspiracy falls apart there.

There is no counter argument against it other than “my betsie here is a good old girl who would never bite anyone”.

Yes there is probably more dangerous dogs, like keeping an actual wolf or something. But they probably aren’t listed because they are in such limited numbers it’s not a big issue. Like keeping a cougar or an alligator or something would be riskier too.

Pit bulls being a massive proportion of overall serious attacks, and still massively overrepresented based on their population. 6-12 times overrepresented and approx 60% of overall. If the facts are wrong there I’d be glad to know, they seem about correct as far as I can tell though. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I’m going to need to see some evidence to believe it’s not a duck though.

You can acknowledge that and still say “I like pit bulls”. Refusing to acknowledge it is disingenuous as best thought.

dog attacks by breed - Google Search

[David A. Rowe]

You don't seem to be particularly intelligent, you're not reading anything but media bullshit, and you're not reading it critically. If there are more "pit bulls" in the US than any other breed, what would you expect to see in terms of number of "pit bulls" in bite incidents? How many of those incidents occurred during a trespassing offense, or as the result of an attack by the bitee? Why are there no Belgian Malinois numbers listed? More importantly, what kind of dog do you have?



Pit bulls average 70-80 pounds. My friendly Akbash/Kangal boy is 120 now, and still growing. And what has happened to the UK population between 2001 and 2021 that might be a factor?

Breed characteristics. Weird what you can do to any population of any lineage within a few generations when you breed and cull selectively. Whether you mean to or not.

[Jason Donaldson]

Ok, do you don’t have any counter arguments. No data on how they’re safe or reasoning why they would be?

Yeah to be honest none of the data is seems 100% compelling but every single source seems to have pit bulls and related as both a huge absolute proportion of attacks and hugely overrepresented in proportion to their numbers. This coupled with the basic common sense of it being a relatively large attack dog is very compelling. It could be a big counter pit bull conspiracy but why just pit bulls? Why wouldn’t this extend to other scary looking dogs..? The conspiracy falls apart there.

There is no counter argument against it other than “my betsie here is a good old girl who would never bite anyone”.

Yes there is probably more dangerous dogs, like keeping an actual wolf or something. But they probably aren’t listed because they are in such limited numbers it’s not a big issue. Like keeping a cougar or an alligator or something would be riskier too.

Pit bulls being a massive proportion of overall serious attacks, and still massively overrepresented based on their population. 6-12 times overrepresented and approx 60% of overall. If the facts are wrong there I’d be glad to know, they seem about correct as far as I can tell though. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I’m going to need to see some evidence to believe it’s not a duck though.

You can acknowledge that and still say “I like pit bulls”. Refusing to acknowledge it is disingenuous as best thought.

dog attacks by breed - Google Search

But there have been counterarguments made, you're just not acknowledging or accepting them. There has been questioning of the breed definitions, questioning of the magnitude of the problem of canine homicides, questioning of the context of them (how many of them were justified vs. not), pointing out how breed selection and treatment of the dog to make them homicidally violent intersect, etc. There has been the argument that dog fighting breeds tend to be bred NOT to attack humans, not the other way around, and the effect of bad ownership on this brought in as a factor related not to the breed, but to the people involved. Saying that Rip has nothing other than "not my dog" is disingenuous five pages into the discussion.

50 people a year is a fair amount. There probably 10 times that amount of serious attacks/maimings that don’t end in a death.

Like the cost benefit here seems very costly. That’s a treasonable amount of preventable injuries just to have a dog that you think looks pretty. Like there’s no practical benefit here compared to a Labrador or something ?

50 people a year and 500 maimings out of how many human-dog interactions? How many of the breed-you-don't-like exist in the US? Even if the percentage of deaths are done by this breed category (and it is a multi-breed category, which may further skew comparisons), if the number of deaths is low in comparison to the interactions, then those deaths are rare, and singling out that category is not exactly the slam dunk it sounds like.

As to cost-benefit, practical benefit, etc....whose decision is this to make? If Rip wants a pit bull, his reasons are his business, not anyone else's. To expect him or anyone else to have to justify practicality, aesthetics, or any other factor on the basis of the malfeasance of a small number of dog owners unconnected to them...do you see where this line of reasoning dangerously leads?

I'll finish with this: Certain breeds do have practicality precisely because of their being scary to some people. How many domiciles get burgled or invaded with resident pitties vs. Chihuahuas? German shepherds vs. pugs? Mastiffs vs. teacup breeds? How many owners mugged while walking? How many grievous injuries and worse are prevented per year by such dogs as you want others not to have? If you cannot answer that, (and you can't) then how can you be sure that getting rid of the putatively offensive dogs won't actually make things worse?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Thank you, Jason.