Squat: Knees forward = hip pain

[mcggg]

Hi folks,

I'm hoping for some advice on my squatting problem. Issues similar to mine have been mentioned frequently here on the board, but I hope that my specific question is unique enough to be useful for others as well.

I have (embarrassingly) been squatting on and off for a couple of years. I tend to make good linear progress for a few weeks, or a couple of months, and then very strong "hip flexor" pain sets me back and often stops my squatting. It seems to quite clearly be the tendonitis brought on by lack of hamstring tension and my knees sliding forward in the hole, however I have not been able to fix it on my own.

I've just gone almost 4 weeks without back squatting, and decided that this time I'm going to keep weight reasonable until I finally get my form right. Here is a set of 5 from tonight, my first day back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01EpPCep7b4#t=0m14s

[I asked my friend to film directly from the side in order to follow the bar path and knee movement. Having just seen the posting suggestions I'll follow-up with a better video later in the week.]

It seems clear to me that I have issues with the bar coming forward, my knees sliding forward (particularly on the 5th rep where I hit decent depth), and depth on some of the reps (#4 especially). However I have not been able to correct the bar-path/knees problem on my own.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can teach my body the correct bar path? Is there a more fundamental problem in my setup or approach (as well as can be see from this angle)? Is there a cue that works better than "sit back?" I would definitely see a coach, but I live in Brazil -- and I haven't been lucky with the timing of my trips to the US lately. I greatly appreciate all advice!

Thanks,
Jim

[BareSteel]

Yes, use the TUBOW cue. Set your knees to the correct position by touching a block of wood that is strategically placed just in front of your toes - but don't knock the block over.

This squat will clean up once you set the knees correctly and learn to push them out forcibly.

See, you're fixated on 'sit back' which is a great cue for lifters who lead with too much knee; but you sit back at the top already, while failing to get the knees in position. Sitting back more will not fix this issue.

I can't guarantee that this will fix your hip flexor pain, but it will at least improve your squat form.

[Archaeosteve]

This is the exact problem Ive been having recently- dont get my knees far enough out and then the bar shifts forward - but I was dipping a bit deeper and losing even more hamstring tension so the forward movement was more pronounced. I was even starting to get the same hip pain.

Using a TUBOW has definitely helped a lot. Focusing on starting the movement by pushing out the knees first and then sitting back is tough for me under heavy weight, but when it happens I feel an incredible difference.

Ive only had two sessions using the tubow so far, and while my form isnt quite perfect yet- ive had far less pain. Goodluck!

[BitinKain]

This is exactly the same problem I have, which I didn't know, until I filmed myself. Hip flexor pain too on the left. I backed off the weight a bit and am focusing on knees out first cue and going from there.

[Milo's Ghost]

Your squats are almost certainly causing your hip pain, and fixing your squats should alleviate it, tho it may take some time.

This is my take:

You're tipping forward at the bottom, coming onto your toes, and that's what pulls the bar forward and kills your power out of the hole. This happens because you're letting your hamstrings slack instead of keeping them in tension.

TUBOW can help. But you've got to consciously keep your knees out HARD at the bottom, and you can't let yourself come forward. Concentrate on keeping your weight on your whole foot. Think about being back on your heels; you don't want to actually do that, but bending the stick for a few reps should result in an evening out into what we're looking for.

You could probably stand to point your toes out another 5-1 0 degrees, too.

Knees out hard and don't get on your toes at the bottom. That's what you focus on.

This movement patten is probably pretty embedded at this point, so I'd back off the weight, work on this, and post another vid.

Good luck.

[mcggg]

Thanks, I appreciate everyone's time.

"Knees out and THEN sit back" sounds like good advice. I'll also try the piece of wood.

Milo, I'm afraid that you're right. I've been doing this incorrectly for long enough that it is quite ingrained. I'll back off the weight so that I can better prevent the forward slide. Usually when the hip gets sore I point my toes wider, so I'll try that suggestion of yours from the start as well.

[mcggg]

Hi all,

It's taken longer than planned, but I'm back with follow-up videos. I've backed off the weight, and I'm thinking about spreading my knees from the start, getting them in the right place first, and then doing the rest of the work with my hips.

With a few exceptions (3rd rep 1st set, and maybe 4th rep 2nd set) I felt pretty solid.

Side view:
http://youtu.be/oD58zh0RqZI

Angled view (last rep slow-mo):
http://youtu.be/CLy8Q16tK_M

I felt greater pressure in my lower back than usual, but the videos look pretty good to me. Am I losing extension or tightness to too great a degree?

How do they look? Again, all comments appreciated. Thanks!

[BareSteel]

You're really improving mcgg. A little shy on depth, but much better in terms of knee positioning. I don't see anything that would link your back pain to your squat form. Hard abs support the spine, so you can think 'Abs and Air' but I didn't see any looseness issues.

[mcggg]

Thanks, BareSteel. Full disclosure; I did a silly heavy, high-rep deadlift workout two days prior, and my back was likely not yet back to normal. I may have also lacked the proper focus on the Valsalva due to the light weight. I'll focus on that next time as I continue the linear progression actually using proper form.