Squat depth confusion

[matze]

I swear to god, I read the book!
But I keep on being confused about how to detect proper squat depth...
I look at the hip creases but just don't know what point to pick on those lines to see if this point is below the top of the patella...
And what point I think works for people with longer, thinner thighs, seems to not work as well for people with shorter, bigger ones... Because I would detect the apex of people with shorter and thicker thighs further up the muscle belly? (see picture 1 & 2)

The red lines in the following pictures are, what I think, level with the apex of the hip creases, I usually refer to. That would mean that squat depth in picture 1 and 2 are just parallel?
Picture 3 might be good?
If I may (if not, please edit), I add the illustration on page 7, blue book.
The squat depth in the right picture again just seems parallel?
Arrow B just points at the hip crease, but not at the specific point of reference?, since that point would be at least an inch too low?
But the apex line again would be a bit too high?

The green lines just mark another theory... but properly detecting a point on the hip joint seems less likely to be "the truth".

small.jpgtall1.jpgtall.jpgbook.jpg

[Martin Shenfield]

Point A is the top of the patella. Not the top of the lady's quad. Point B is the hip crease. Point B needs to drop below point A and below parallel to the ground.

I am not an SSC and I'm autistic so I may very well be wrong, but I believe it's about parallel, the top of the patella and the hip joint as identified by the apex in the crease of shorts or pants, and not about the size of a person's quads.

[Jason Donaldson]

Point A is the top of the patella. Not the top of the lady's quad. Point B is the hip crease. Point B needs to drop below point A and below parallel to the ground.

I am not an SSC and I'm autistic so I may very well be wrong, but I believe it's about parallel, the top of the patella and the hip joint as identified by the apex in the crease of shorts or pants, and not about the size of a person's quads.

I think you're exactly right, Martin. Watching the highest point of the patella instead of the highest point of the quads is exactly correct, and one of the hardest things to watch on a squat in real time, at least in my experience. Otherwise, the same lifter would have to squat lower and lower as the quads grow, which would change the ROM of the lift, ruining consistent comparison over time.

Accurately and consistently identifying the hip crease can be a challenge as clothing varies...which is why most competition rules specify a tight-fitting singlet. While having athletes squat naked below the waist might address this as well, it introduces all manner of other challenges, to say the least... It is worth noting that the hip crease is NOT the same as the wrinkles in the clothing. It is an anatomical feature created by the articulation of the hip joint, and serves as the observable proxy for the alignment of the bones.

If I'm not mistaken, that's what we really want, is for the long axis of the femur to break parallel. Since we cannot observe the femur directly without great expense and detrimental radiation exposure, we instead rely on external features that correspond with its internal features, and thereby determine the alignment that ultimately matters.

[Don Babo]

While I concur with Martin on Point A, I'm similarly unsure of Point B. I've settled on this interpretation (which thus far hasn't failed me during form checks in this forum):

"Apex in the crease of the shorts" might be slightly more clearly described as the "apex of the trough in the crease of the shorts." If one were to don a rubber glove, assiduously avoid eye-contact, and poke a finger into the "crease of the shorts" of the lifter shown, that finger would bottom out at the trough of the crease, where thigh meets hip. Were one to then find the point along that trough that is closest to the ceiling, that point would be the "apex of the trough in the crease" or more simply "apex in the crease," and would align pretty closely with the Point B shown (with respect to vertical measurement). The clothing obscures this point in the diagram.

I would personally judge all three of the squats shown to be of sufficient depth based on this interpretation.

Again, I don't actually know any more than either of you, but I'm happy to keep the conversation going if it ultimately yields clarity for all of us.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If I'm not mistaken, that's what we really want, is for the long axis of the femur to break parallel.

Good one, Jason.

[Martin Shenfield]

If I'm not mistaken, that's what we really want, is for the long axis of the femur to break parallel.

Actually, what we really want is for Rip not to tell us we're squatting high. This is all just about how we avoid that happening.

It's been occurring to me, even for myself, that reading the book is not the same as understanding it.