45 inch vertical from NFL prospect at Combine

[blandrick]

By NFL standards, yes. Inside Linebackers are pretty much that exact definition. If they were any better athletes, they'd be outside linebackers, running backs, defensive ends, or tight ends. They're just hard nosed, instinctive football players who aren't good enough athletes to play where the money is. But they'll step in front of a hard charging 225lb running back 50+ plays a game.

Chris Borland his a prime example of that. Drafted later last year because he didn't have the "measurables" to be drafted in the first round. Stepped in after a few weeks and could have been defensive rookie of the year had he finished the season.

These guys are obviously, still, stellar athletes. But you do see it at other levels, in other sports even. It's certainly possible to be a decent football player and not a very good athlete. I mean, you've gotta be able to run without falling over, there's an obvious baseline that needs to be met. But it's possible, sure.

To use an example from another sport: Zach Randolph. The dude is quite good, but he is basically ground-bound. He is a big, tall, strong man, but is nowhere near as athletic as even just the average guy playing his position in the NBA. He used to average 20/10.

At certain positions, in certain sports, and with a high level of skill/sport specific IQ, you can definitely succeed while being much less athletic than your peers, but I don't think it's going to be very common. I don't know that you could be a good NFL RB without being a freak athlete, but there's plenty of first basemen that I wouldn't call genetic freaks by any extent.

[Splat]

By NFL standards, yes. Inside Linebackers are pretty much that exact definition. If they were any better athletes, they'd be outside linebackers, running backs, defensive ends, or tight ends. They're just hard nosed, instinctive football players who aren't good enough athletes to play where the money is. But they'll step in front of a hard charging 225lb running back 50+ plays a game.

Lovie Smith may disagree with your assessment. The Tampa-2 defense pretty much requires a very athletic middle linebacker.

[Splat]

Tom Brady.....Jameis Winston..... Wes Welker....shitty athletes but good football players.

Jameison Konz, Bruce Campbell, Tim Tebow......great athletes but shitty football players.

How are you defining athlete? Tom Brady throughout his career has had tremendous spatial awareness and passing accuracy. While those don't involve the application of power, they are still skills.

[Bolson32]

To use an example from another sport: Zach Randolph. The dude is quite good, but he is basically ground-bound. He is a big, tall, strong man, but is nowhere near as athletic as even just the average guy playing his position in the NBA. He used to average 20/10.

At certain positions, in certain sports, and with a high level of skill/sport specific IQ, you can definitely succeed while being much less athletic than your peers, but I don't think it's going to be very common. I don't know that you could be a good NFL RB without being a freak athlete, but there's plenty of first basemen that I wouldn't call genetic freaks by any extent.

I agree completely. It's also something to keep in mind that people have the propensity to display athleticism in one aspect, and then look like a club foot in another. Tom Brady is slow as hell, but he's smart and can throw a football awfully damn well.

On a non-professional level, the only two things I'm good at are drinking beer, and hitting a ball with a stick really hard and far. And I've always been able to do that, I hit a baseball 235 ft when I was 7 and I can even throw pretty decent. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm slow and weak, and would be considered a pretty poor athlete.

[meetch]

Is it possible to be a good football player and a shitty athlete?

Yes. Welbourn said he was never afraid of guys who looked like a million bucks and were all quads and upper body. He said he always was concerned with the guys who were bubble butt, walked the way that would make the Supple Leopard have a heart attack and were beer truck drivers.

I've seen lots of shitty athletes in terms of the physical attributes that more than make up for it with sport IQ.

[Mike C]

Yes. Welbourn said he was never afraid of guys who looked like a million bucks and were all quads and upper body. He said he always was concerned with the guys who were bubble butt, walked the way that would make the Supple Leopard have a heart attack and were beer truck drivers.

I've seen lots of shitty athletes in terms of the physical attributes that more than make up for it with sport IQ.

He said that about Supple Leopard? Because in the book it specifically mentions welbourne and his experience with over 30 podiatrists pre-draft who examined players feet in order to predict future ACL tears (collapsed arches are far more likely to have ACL injuries than normal arches). Walking the supple leopard way is exactly how all good athletes walk. Walking pigeon/duck toed with valgus knees (collapsed arches) is exactly the type of guy who isn't going to be a very good athlete, or one who won't stay on the field very long - and I find it hard to believe that Welbourne would see a guy like that and have any sort of concern.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Fallen arches equal valgus knees? Always? Are you sure?

[Mike C]

Fallen arches equal valgus knees? Always? Are you sure?

They do not equal each other, no. One often leads to the other - according to Starrett (in my understanding of the book).

[SS SS]

He said that about Supple Leopard? Because in the book it specifically mentions welbourne and his experience with over 30 podiatrists pre-draft who examined players feet in order to predict future ACL tears (collapsed arches are far more likely to have ACL injuries than normal arches). Walking the supple leopard way is exactly how all good athletes walk. Walking pigeon/duck toed with valgus knees (collapsed arches) is exactly the type of guy who isn't going to be a very good athlete, or one who won't stay on the field very long - and I find it hard to believe that Welbourne would see a guy like that and have any sort of concern.

Could someone explain the argument behind walking duck toed = bad athlete thing. I won't take the time to find and post a bunch of video, but, while watching NBA games many times I have noticed LeBron walks very duck footed. Does the foot thing have any real impact? Obviously outside of cases of extreme valgus knees or something similar

[Christopher Button]

Yes. Welbourn said he was never afraid of guys who looked like a million bucks and were all quads and upper body. He said he always was concerned with the guys who were bubble butt, walked the way that would make the Supple Leopard have a heart attack and were beer truck drivers.

I've seen lots of shitty athletes in terms of the physical attributes that more than make up for it with sport IQ.

Have you got a source for that? Curious to read/hear exactly what he said.