Late NLP Guidance - When to start making changes?

[John Fioravanti]

Hi all,

I just purchased the blue book (to reread) and the grey book (to read) so I can do my best to address programming issues on my own. For now, I am trying to assess where I am in the NLP and how to proceed intelligently. As discussed in #137 Compliance, Simplicity, and Training, I am trying not getting distracted and grind through these heavier weights.

Here are my numbers after nearly 11 weeks of training:
Age: 23 years
Height: 6'1"
BW: 170 -> 202 lbs
Squat: 125 -> 275 lbs (video of 275 just posted on technique )
Dead: 125 -> 300 lbs
Bench: 105 -> 160 lbs
Press: 65 -> 110 lbs
Power Clean: ________ (I know I should learn it. I probably will. Please don't smite me)

- Note: I've been eating 4,500 calories per day averaging about 250 grams of protein.
- Note: I had elbow tendonitis which delayed upper body lifts about 1-2 weeks while I was doing the tempo bench protocol.

Based on "A Clarification," I am rapidly approaching the 3-4 month change of diet and tapering gains. I'm guessing I've got about 25-50 lbs left of LP for squat and deadlift. Bench is fine (am doing a few 5 lbs jumps to catch it up). Press is getting grindy.

Should I begin programming deadlift and squat differently? 2.5 lb jumps? Less frequent jumps - or just keep grinding a few more weeks?
Should I drop a few hundred calories/day as mentioned in "A Clarification?"


Thank you. I'll be reading the grey book these next two weeks,
- John

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are 6'1" at 202 and only 11 weeks into the LP. You are just starting, and are nowhere near a change in programming. Gain another 20 pounds over the next couple of months, and get your squat up to 405.

Just as an experiment, what would you say your RPE is for that set of squats in the other thread? Don't look at it, just tell us the number.

[tiny&mighty]

Also keep this in mind: the longer you run the NLP, the more data you will have to make informed decisions about your intermediate programming when the time comes.

[John Fioravanti]

If I'm correct, RPE is 1-10 with 10 being maximal effort. 275 felt like a 9 or 10. I have things like "tough" and "absolute all out war" written in my log.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I rest my case on RPE.

[John Fioravanti]

I get the message — do the program, push harder. Thanks, Mark.

[tiny&mighty]

That RPE thread is very entertaining. Had I gone by RPE, I would still be squatting in the 115-125 lbs range. Yesterday, I squatted 202.5 lbs for triples.

I have things like "tough" and "absolute all out war" written in my log.

In my experience, this is how the program is supposed to feel like. On some days, un-racking the bar is terrifying. On most days over the last month, starting the last rep of each set has been a true a leap of faith. But somehow, I have yet to miss a rep.

Good on you John for pushing through those absolute all out wars. Keep this up and you will reap the full benefits of this program. Of course you will get stronger, but this process also does something to your brain. As Rip once said, "balls are teachable" and the squat is the best teacher I have come across so far.

For jumps, I have been very reliant on small jumps and on micro-loading, but I am also older (40) and lighter (122 lbs) than you, besides being female. That said, my 210 lbs husband started using 2.5 lbs on his squat when he reached about 300 lbs and this has worked very well for him. As far as I understand, the main downside to using smaller jumps is that it has the potential to unnecessarily slow down one's progression. Since my husband and I are more interested in steady progress than in quick progress, this is a non-issue for us. I think I have also read somewhere that if the jumps are too small, the training session might not be enough of a stimulus to trigger the stress-recovery-adaptation cycle. Not much of a concern in my case, but I would keep that in mind if I were a heavier person.

[CommanderFun]

If I'm correct, RPE is 1-10 with 10 being maximal effort. 275 felt like a 9 or 10. I have things like "tough" and "absolute all out war" written in my log.

That was an 8 at most, man. In a maximal set of 5, after the third rep you're starting to wonder to yourself if the bar will even go back up for a fourth.