Reply With QuoteYou say that as your body weight goes up your chins are too. But don’t you think that the 150 lb kid who does the program (which includes gaining weight) could see his chins stay stagnant, or even go down, due to the increased body weight?
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A New Definition for Strength Training | Mark Rippetoe
What exactly is “strength training”? This is a legitimate question, because the internet seems to think that anything more strenuous than billiards can be referred to as Strength Training. I have seen almost everything you can do in a gym referred to as “strength training.”
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You say that as your body weight goes up your chins are too. But don’t you think that the 150 lb kid who does the program (which includes gaining weight) could see his chins stay stagnant, or even go down, due to the increased body weight?
TMPHBITEU
No, I don't think so. In fact, that does not happen.
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Whether it is for training, physical rehabilitation, or basic fitness, everyone must train these movement patterns. Except for the presses and the throwing movement, all the others are closed kinetic chain ones. This has key implications for women. A 2017 study titled "The impact of closed versus open kinetic chain exercises on osteoporotic femur neck and risk of fall in postmenopausal women" concluded that CKC exercises were the best for diminishing the effects of the disease and reducing the risk of falls.
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Pressing something overhead while maintaining balance over the longest kinetic chain possible is not necessary for women?Originally Posted by Russella Serna
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The answer to your question is in my post. "Women", by definition, is a noun subsumed under the pronoun "everyone", as in "everyone must train these movement patterns."
The study suggested that closed kinetic chain exercises improved outcomes for women with osteoporosis better than open kinetic chain ones. This is not the same as saying open kinetic chain movements such as the overhead press "are not necessary for women."
TMPHBITEU
I have not heard the term "closed" or "open" kinetic chain used in many years. We don't use the terms because they are essentially meaningless in the context of barbell training, and are irrelevant to multi-joint barbell exercises. Is a squat open or closed kinetic chain, how is this different from a press, and who really gives a shit? You're standing on the floor moving the load while balancing it in the squat, press, deadlift, and clean.
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I assume this is the study, since you didn't bother to link it? The impact of closed versus open kinetic chain exercises on osteoporotic
femur neck and risk of fall in postmenopausal women - PMC
So they found that exercises which actually loaded the femur, even trivially (bicycling?) caused the femur to adapt. Truly groundbreaking.In Group I, twenty osteoporotic postmenopausal women received closed kinetic chain exercises for 40 minutes with 5 minute break between each exercise, which included leg press in horizontal position (15 minutes), bicycling (15 minutes), Stairmaster climbing (10 minutes). If the participants became tired, lost their balance, sweated excessively, were breathless, or experienced chest pain or leg cramps, the exercises were discontinued. In Group II, twenty osteoporotic postmenopausal women received open kinetic chain exercises for 40 minutes with 10 minute break between them, which included straight leg raising, hip shrugging from a half crock lying position, hip extension from prone lying position, abduction and adduction from side lying position. All participants were required to maintain the position with the leg straight and as high as possible for a couple of seconds. If the participants became tired, lost their balance, sweated excessively, were breathless, or experienced chest pain or leg cramps, the exercises were discontinued.
And, I would note if they consider the leg press a closed kinetic chain exercise--which is not how I understand the term-- then they're using a definition that would include the press and bench press as well.
So yeah, loaded human movement causes favorable adaptions. Somebody should write a book about it.
TMPHBITEU
The words "deadlift" and "squat" do not appear in the article. "Press" appears as "leg press", with the authors somehow unaware that their definition of CCK excludes the exercise. Such is the state of the "science."
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Who would have thought that closed chain kinetic movements and open chain kinetic movements would be so polemical in a discussion about strength training. Who gives a shit, Rip? Well, I do. Who uses these terms? The rest of the world. They are basic terms used to codify movements.
Matt James, the leg press, bench press, and overhead press are considered open chain ones because the appendages moving the weight are not fixed, and they move away from the body.
The squat and deadlift are considered closed chain because the feet are fixed on the ground, ahem, "closing" the kinetic chain. It's that simple.
Studies have their inherent flaws, and this one is no exception because it did not include the deadlift and squat. Then again, multiple studies have already proven the superior efficacy of the barbell squat, deadlift, and pressing movements for building strength and muscular efficiency.
I still think that the study still has value despite your opinions.
I practice the NLP consistently and coach it to my family and friends, and my original post agreed with the article’s text. I’m not one of your detractors, so I sense in this group the unmistakable whiff of intractable positions upon which I have tread.
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