thoracic rounding and fatigue on pulls

[Cole Gorton]

40 y/o M , 5'10, 230lbs ~25%bf

Started LP DLs around mid 200's for a single set of 5. quickly went to pulling only on light squat days as I went to advanced novice LP. now I'm on week 4 of vanilla TM and pulls getting a little tough. i have implemented a backoff set of 5 SLDL after my intensity set of 5 since I do no pulls on volume days.

I feel my weakness is once I pass the knees. last set was 390x5 and I felt tight and rigid up to the knees, then the upper back starts to round as I lock it out.

Do I need more pulling volume to address this upper back weakness? should I do 2 back off sets? or should I include a set of 5 (-10% or so) on volume days as well as intensity days?

What advice to improve upper back strength so I don't stall? I would like to carry my ID set of 5s up to the mid 400s before having to drop to 2 triples.

Thanks

[Satch12879]

All feelings, no video.

[CommanderFun]

When it gets heavy the upper back tends to round a little. If you're able to lock it out still with your chest picked up at the top and don't have to hitch to do it you should be okay.

[Maybach]

The power clean is not optional.

[Johnsonville]

Agreed that you should do cleans if you’re able to. They helped my pulling a lot, especially staying tight through the whole pull.

[Cole Gorton]

Johnson and maybach: I train for powerlifting and I don't think cleans will help drive my DL but I could be wrong. I also have a very tiny space for cleans, the wall is pretty close to the uprights, barely enough to DL. I do the weighted chins instead. Do you think cleans will help with keeping a tighter upper back while DLing?

[Maybach]

Cleans train the exact movement in the deadlift, done faster. They will absolutely help with the deadlift. Even just *learning* how will help at first, and the weight they need to get to to become productive is lighter than people say. The specific position you complain about (the lockout at the top) is the most forceful part of the power clean, so that should tell you something.

90% of "problems with the deadlift" posts on these forums end up finding out the poster is chinning instead of power cleaning. Chins are related to pulls, and work as a "light pull", but they are not pulls from the floor. If you absolutely will not power clean (which is a mistake), you need to be doing another deadlift-style pull for your "medium" pulling work. Chins aren't heavy enough, and aren't a pull from the floor. 80%5x2 deadlifts if nothing else.