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Mark Wulfe:
From The Aasgaard Company Studios in beautiful Wichita Falls, Texas... From the finest mind in modern fitness industry... The one true voice in the strength and conditioning profession... The most important podcast on the internet... Ladies and gentlemen! Starting Strength Radio.

Mark Rippetoe:
Welcome to Starting Strength Radio, it's Friday. And on Friday there is Starting Strength Radio. I know that your Friday's not complete without it, neither is mine. Neither is mine. We've spent a lot of time doing this podcast, thinking about this podcast, editing the podcast, talking about it, getting ready to do it, doing it, recording it, enjoying it, worshipping it, buying it flowers and beer and stuff. And as a result, here we are on Friday and it's Starting Strength Radio.

Mark Rippetoe:
Now, we are here today with our friend Inna Koppel. And Inna is a former gym owner in the wonderful state of New York. And we're going to talk a little bit about that here in just a minute. But Inna's with us today to talk about kind of the next phase of development in Starting Strength Coach recruitment, employment, this sort of thing. And tangentially we're going to talk about probably really the greater issue here is the transformation of the fitness industry in 2020.

Mark Rippetoe:
2020 has been the shittiest year in anybody's lifetime, right? Now I understand that a few were in Hiroshima in 1945, it was probably a pretty bad time, but you'd be very, very, very old if you were there. Inna and I aren't that old. I'm almost that old, but not quite. Inna's a young girl. And in our lifetimes, this this fucked up situation here in 2020 with everything that's going on has just been a it's been a chore.

Mark Rippetoe:
And it's changed a lot of things, hasn't it? I mean, this is there have been some significant changes in the business that we're in and in everybody's personal lives as well. And how are we how are we dealing with this? What do you think? What's your general impression of what has happened in the fitness industry in 2020? You've been involved in in this business for a long time as I have I. And this is the most transformative bunch of chaos that I've I've ever seen.

Inna Koppel:
And, you know, what's interesting is that some people think that things are going back to normal. And I try to explain to them that things don't ever go back to the way they were. If that was true, we wouldn't worry about the future. But things are not going back to what normal used to be. Certainly not after all of these changes have happened to the fitness industry.

Inna Koppel:
Now we're speaking exclusively fitness. I owned a fitness studio for quite some time before opening up a Starting Strength affiliate gym. And I can speak on the part of many fitness instructors or people who are just doing basic boot camps that they have been replaced with virtual products.

Inna Koppel:
So this disruption has displaced a lot of people from work. People don't want to go into fitness studios. And if they can get, you know, a company like Soul Cycle or Peloton to jump around on a mirror product and they can workout at home while they're dumping their trainers for it. People would rather be home exercising than actually going to their studios. And so if you didn't really have a fitness certification that was of value, you can now easily be replaced with a virtual A.I. type of system.

Mark Rippetoe:
And if you're if all you're doing is riding on a stationary bike, why not?

Inna Koppel:
Right. There's no difference.

Mark Rippetoe:
No, there really isn't. The net effect is exactly the same, isn't it?

Inna Koppel:
Yes, it absolutely is. And people would rather have a virtual product for their home and convenience when it comes to general fitness than to go out of their way. If they can go to a gym, they might. But the truth is, at this point, I think people are trading in their trainers, their aerobics instructors for a virtual product. And so that is not going back to normal.

Inna Koppel:
People will always want to have a blend between virtual and in-person when it comes to these types of spin classes and cardio classes. And I know because I've taught many of them and I see a lot of my c... My colleagues really struggling, you know. They're teaching classes outside to four people because they can't teach indoors. And they're losing their jobs and places are getting shut down. I mean, we are not going back to whatever normal was.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, and some of that is dependent on where you're trying to do business. Now, some states are leading the way back to whatever that normal will become, like Florida. I think it's important to note that Florida has out Texased Texas. Thanks to our nutless governor. You know, he's not as bad as some, but, you know, this is this was not the time to to just, you know, sit around and and hope that things would get better. We looked to him for some some leadership, and he failed to provide it.

Mark Rippetoe:
In Florida, however, those guys are off of lockdown. I want you to also... I want all of you guys listening to me today to go to the internet and look at the death rate from covid-19, from the deadly covid-19 pandemic, in Florida, which has come off of lockdown. And is as open as any state in the United States. And notice the difference between that and everywhere else. And you'll find that lockdown has had no positive effect on this situation whatsoever.

Mark Rippetoe:
So if I was opening a... if I was operating a gym in Florida, for example, I might be a little bit more optimistic about my future chances than, for example, if I was operating a gym in in New York or California. New York is essentially a police state at this point, quite similar to Victoria, state of Victoria in South Australia.

Mark Rippetoe:
And. It's... It's... I guess disappointing is the word for the way my fellow Americans have behaved in this in this situation. They willingly accepted a 100 fold increase in government authority over their daily lives and... Because they think it's going to make them safe. That's... I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed of them. I really am.

Mark Rippetoe:
And people like you who have been financially whacked in the head by this shameful behavior, feel it most especially. You know, I mean, Inna had a nice little club up there with a wonderful clientele. We went up there several times a year for camps and seminars and had a great time up there. But your governor has decided that his version of Chairman Mao is going to be the situation.

Inna Koppel:
Yeah, we had a great facility and we would have sold out seminars and it was a very successful business. We raised a couple of Starting Strength Coaches there and had interns and everything was running smoothly and well, as I think a lot of people would tell you, you know, at the start of 2020.

Mark Rippetoe:
Oh, yeah who would have seen this coming, you know.

Inna Koppel:
We were forced to shut down.

Mark Rippetoe:
Are any gyms in the state of New York open at this point?

Inna Koppel:
So in the City, no, they're not. In some surrounding counties, there are some gyms that are open and they are limited capacity. That has not changed since they set them at about 25 percent capacity. So, you know...

Mark Rippetoe:
Which is exactly the capacity that it would take to not even pay the the rent. And it's just that, you know, it's not a viable situation. And governor or rather, Mayor Wilhelm has not opened any of the gyms in New York City since he owns them all, right?

Inna Koppel:
Yeah, it's not possible to keep your gym open, especially when, you know, your your coaches, your trainers were collecting unemployment. They have no motivation to come back and work .and they are not working with the same amount of people they were working with before. It's just a disaster to the business. And it it made it impossible for us to have ours open.

Mark Rippetoe:
And it's not only our business, obviously. How would you like to be a bar owner in the state of New York? A restaurant owner? This is such a devastating development and it's... The same situation is seen in various degrees of severity across the country. I think in Texas, the bars are still closed, aren't they? No, they're all open? But with serving food though, right? You have to have food because if you have food available in the bar, the covid-19 cannot be cannot be transmitted in the presence of hors d'eourves is that right? Something to that effect.

Inna Koppel:
People have been put out of work with these restrictions and I really honestly, you know, maybe five out of 10 colleagues of mine have given up and closed. The rest are on their way down and they're in debt. People are in bad shape here. And so after we closed down our gym, because it was impossible to stay open financially and we're still almost a year in and there's no progress, really. I was fortunate enough to be able to take on a new position and help other people find work. And I think that Starting Strength is uniquely positioned to grow during a time when everyone else is shrinking.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, that's a that's a good it's a good point. And that's that's a wonderful way to get into the meat of our discussion today. This is Friday. And those of you that look at the website on a daily basis would have seen my essay that appeared two days ago regarding the new fitness industry. And the gist of this is that the old fitness industry - that is the vast, vast, vast majority of the fitness industry as it has it has previously been constituted - has been based on the fact that the market for that industry regards the fitness industry services as recreational. They regard them as recreation and so does the government. The government considers a big global gym to be the equivalent of a bowling alley. It is the same thing, it's a place where you go to have fun and of course, fun is not central, fun is not central to a politician who's intent on expanding his little petty fiefdom, right?

Mark Rippetoe:
So you've got a you've got a situation where if you're going to Gold's Gym, if any of them are still open. Then you go there to exercise. You go there to, you know, stop by after work, five thirty, you hit the parking lot, you walk in with your gym bag, you go in and change clothes and you come back out and you go over to the dumbbell rack and wave the 20 pound dumbbells around for 15 or 20 minutes and new and exciting ways. And then you get on the treadmill and you ride the treadmill while you watch CNN and you get sweaty. Right. And you do some lat pulldowns and you you know, you watch yourself in the mirror and admire your abs. And then you go back to the dressing room and you go take a sauna, get nice and sweaty and go take a shower, put your clothes back on and pick up your gym bag and go back out to your car, supremely satisfied that you have accomplished something today. And you had a good time, you've engaged in recreation. That's what you've done.

Mark Rippetoe:
And the industry is predicated on that model, they set the gym up in lovely decorative ways, purple walls, lime green equipment, mirrors everywhere. You've you've got all of this... All of this going on and every bit of it is headed in the direction of you having a good time, which is quite different than our model at Starting Strength.

Mark Rippetoe:
Our model at Starting Strength is training. And training at some point is not any fun. All right.

Mark Rippetoe:
The kid that goes to... What is this thing across the street over here called? Crush or crunch or something like this? We got a new gym going in where Gold's... Crunch Fitness. Gold's folded up. Crunch Fitness, one of the ten dollar places is going in across the street over there.

[off-camera]:
And they slid in right at the right time.

Oh, man. They bought that property cheap. Oh, they just were desperate to rent that to another gym.

[off-camera]:
Capitalized on all the Gold's going under.

Mark Rippetoe:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're... That's quite a smart bunch of people.

[off-camera]:
You know what, good for them.

Mark Rippetoe:
But this is the same kind of a model. They're just you know, you go over there to have a good time and you know, look at the girls and play grab ass for 15, 20 minutes and and ride the bike and get sweaty and, you know, catch a pump. Catch a sweat. Go back out to the car, leaving having had a good time.

Mark Rippetoe:
At Starting Strength facilities, whether there are franchised gyms, affiliate gyms, gyms run by Starting Strength Coaches, our paradigm is training. In other words, you come in to accomplish something today that is a little bit more than you accomplished last time. And this is a fundamentally different approach to the fitness industry than is typical across the greater market.

Mark Rippetoe:
And my position on the thing is that we are not a recreational facility and we are therefore not non-essential any more than a school is non-essential. We are a place where... Where people come... We are an educational experience in that we are getting you stronger, smarter, you're learning things, you're coming in, you're getting something accomplished, everything that you do in our gym is supervised. You don't just wander around from the leg extension machine to the pec deck to the treadmill like you do in these recreational facilities.

Mark Rippetoe:
And our our services are at a completely different level. And what Inna is trying to do now is to is to communicate this difference to the people that we need to work for us. We are in a position of growth. Inna, tell us about our growth situation right now.

Inna Koppel:
It's really exciting to be, you know, to really be on my end representing Starting Strength Gyms at this point, because not only are we growing and so we can be an asset to coaches, people who are seeking career in coaching the Starting Strength method, but also we are an opportunity for the serious trainee who understands the value of becoming strong to preserve their health and to ward off death. For those people who are serious about their training, we now have a growing number of gyms that will be available and this in particular has to do specifically with the Starting Strength method.

Inna Koppel:
Now, we're not just talking about opening the general gyms, like Rip said, that are for recreation. No, this is specifically a gym that is designed around the Starting Strength method. And like I tell many people, when you walk into a franchise gym, it's as if the Starting Strength book has come alive. You see the words of Rip on the wall. You see his racks. The system of training that's being used in the gym is exclusively Starting Strength.

Inna Koppel:
And I think that the brand has gotten its message across to people all over this country that being strong is essential, and especially during a time like this, when people are afraid for their health, afraid for their freedom, afraid for everything that might be taken away from them. They feel very empowered by the fact that when they become stronger, it changes their mental status and they can do something about all of that fear, all of that instability. And to our pleasant surprise, Starting Strength gyms have just exploded in numbers. Where we had four gyms open previously, we are now in the process of getting 38 gyms open all over this country and that number is growing soon.

Mark Rippetoe:
Two or three week, serious inquiries about about how a person who realizes that the viability of our model can invest with us. And and this has created asituation where the bottleneck for us at this point is qualified help. We do not hire pin setters. If you've got a bachelors or even a masters degree in some version of P.E. physical education, whether it's biomechanics or exercise physiology or whatever your school calls it, it's a PE degree and you have to understand that that does not qualify you to teach what we teach in our gyms.

Mark Rippetoe:
You are... I can't imagine, a more worthless piece of paper than a bachelors in PE right now. I don't, you know, maybe a bachelors in some form of grievance studies, you know, maybe a bachelor's degree in history or gender studies or criminal justice or something like that that you've been sold. But the PE degree's absolutely the same level of useless. If you haven't learned in your degree - and I know you haven't - how to correctly teach a person to deadlift, then... And you don't know anything about why it's correct, why it's incorrect, all that, you are going to have to learn that if you want to work for us.

Mark Rippetoe:
Now, I understand that you may not want to work for us because I'm an asshole and I'm pink and fat and all this other shit. But our point here today is that our businesses are viable in this environment where all of these other gyms have been declared non-essential. And can be declared non-essential at any time.

Mark Rippetoe:
In other words, if you are a pin setter at Gold's, you, my friend, are on thin ice. And you can't make that ice any thicker because the the decision about whether that gym is open is out of your hands. It's out of your control. And you could argue that the decision that Starting Strength Gym stay open is out of our control as well, but I will tell you that all four of our Starting Strength gyms are open right now. They're open and we are not going to close them down. You know, we will just see what happens, but we're taking a different approach to this, we don't think we're non-essential. We regard ourselves as being essential and we can make a case for that.

Mark Rippetoe:
And if you look at the situation inside of our gyms you'll see that social distancing... That's the most aggravating motherfucking word I've ever... Just suddenly one day in March, everybody started saying the word "social distancing." Well, it's physical distancing, it's not social distancing. It's it's not what it is. Social distancing is one I don't take your call.

Inna Koppel:
That's called ghosting.

Mark Rippetoe:
And so that's yeah, that's called ignoring you. That's social... I'm distancing myself socially from you.

Mark Rippetoe:
But we're talking about physical distancing. Our our coaching and our activities in our gyms are conducted at a distance. It's just it's inherent in the in the way we execute our our training programs. You know, I don't like to see people wearing masks in the gym because it restricts your ability to breathe and the last rep of a heavy set of five you had better have access to all the air you can inhale. All right. So I don't like to see that. But I mean, I guess if you want to wear a mask in our gyms, you can go ahead and do it if you can stand the social pressure against it, because I'm going to laugh at you.

Mark Rippetoe:
I'm sorry. I'm just what I'm going to do. I'm going to laugh at you. We have at Wichita Falls Athletic Club... Now we're not a Starting Strength Gym, we're an affiliate. I haven't ever closed. I was a bad boy and I didn't close when I was supposed to. And nobody in the gym's ever worn a mask. And everybody's fine. Everybody's just fine.

[off-camera]:
I think that that goes to the point that stronger people are not dying.

Mark Rippetoe:
Stronger people... I don't know any 30 year old power lifter that's died of the deadly covid-19.

[off-camera]:
Rip, I've had two clients in their 60s or mid 60s who have had hard jobs, who are beat up. They both got covid. They were sick for one day, maybe two. Yeah. And then they're fine.

Mark Rippetoe:
I had it in March. I was sick for about a day and a half. And I'm 64.

Inna Koppel:
Are you really? I thought you were 35.

Mark Rippetoe:
It's hard to believe. It's hard to believe, I know. Especially when you look at me naked, it's it's almost impossible to believe that I'm 64. No one would ever guess that. The oldest I've ever had anybody guess my age that was like 47 or something like that.

Inna Koppel:
But that's a good point that you make. I think that a lot of people who contact us about training at a gym feel much more comfortable coming into a setting where it's a controlled setting, it's a structured group training process. You have about 11 feet separating you from the next person. You have your own equipment. And so people who are weary during this time and want to be in a safe training environment understand that this is a controlled environment and they feel more comfortable joining this type of gym. And that's why we haven't lost many members. It's because people understand, number one, the value of what they're learning there. And number two, they feel comfortable training in the Starting Strength Gym because of the setup.

Mark Rippetoe:
Right. Because when you come into the Starting Strength Gym before you walk in the door, everything you're going to do today is already written down for you. You know where you're going to be in the room. You know all your sets, all your reps, all your weights, you know where all the weights are. There's no wandering around. This is a training environment. It is not a recreational environment. And this comforts people who are in need of comfort.

Mark Rippetoe:
You know, one of the most important things that I've always said about training for strength is that it it it produces an awareness in a person who may not be aware of it previously that you are, in fact in control of what happens to you. The results of training are directly and absolutely proportional to the effort that you put into this activity. Training doesn't just happen to you. You control it and the outcome of training is yours to control, and this is an extremely important lesson in today's fucked up environment, it really is.

Mark Rippetoe:
You people have had their businesses and their livelihoods and their work and their income jerked out from underneath them, from no for no fault of their own. And this one little aspect of their existence remains under their control, and it's extremely important to not take that away from people and we're not going to do it.

Inna Koppel:
And they know it, too, because that the one thing that people held on to when we were shut down in New York is my Barbell club, the affiliate gym side of my facility. Every single trainee knew enough, inherently knew, that they had to hold on to their strength. And the first thing we did is equipped every member that wanted a barbell with equipment so that they could train at home, thinking this wasn't going to last long. But every strength trainee before the shutdown, they weren't running around buying toilet paper. They were trying to get equipment because they knew that if they stayed strong, they could combat whatever was coming their way. They could help themselves with reducing fear and they were not going to give up their strength because if you give up your strength, you give up your health.

Inna Koppel:
And and here's another this is a real good, real good point to be made about the change in the market in our end of the fitness industry. You have just with the stroke of a pen, every governor in the country that shut down the gyms just created a huge market for barbell equipment. Now, nobody puts a 10 station Nautilus set up in their garage because it doesn't fit. Right? But I'll bet I can't imagine the number of racks and bars and the sheer volume of plates that have been sold over the past six months. A giant new market for home gym barbell gym equipment has been created overnight.

Inna Koppel:
It's still sold out to this day.

Mark Rippetoe:
I mean, there's no inventory. You know, everybody is sold out. Our friend Grant Broggi out in California started up a barbell plate company. He's got Strength Co plates for sale. He's probably sold out by now. That first batch, I'm quite sure is gone and he's ordering he's trying to keep up with his orders.

Mark Rippetoe:
Starting Strength bars have been sold out. Capps Welding has been having a hell of a time getting bar stock because this... People do not understand, Inna, how big a perturbation in the giant world economy this thing has caused. Economies, as it turned out, are very complicated things. And if Capps can't get bar stock, they can't make barbells. I mean, they're standing around waiting on orders of raw material. Everybody else is too. Some raw materials are in very, very short supply.

Mark Rippetoe:
In some cases there's a glut of raw materials because of the fact that it's just not being used in this economic downturn. You realize there's absolutely no market right now for recyclable aluminum? None. Those beer cans you used to sell? They're of no value whatsoever. You just throw them in a landfill now because aluminum is not being used for anything anymore. And, you know, it's just who could have predicted the difference between bar stock and aluminum? You know, it's hard to it's hard to...this was centrally planned. Economies don't work. This is why socialism doesn't work. It's why it's never worked. It's why it's never why it never will work. Because it physically is impossible to know all of the economic variables in an extremely huge multivariate system. You don't know what's going to happen. And that's what prices are for. That's why socialism doesn't work and why the free market must be allowed to persist. And our part of the free market is being fucked with. And as a result, a lot of people are out of work.

Mark Rippetoe:
If you are out of work and you intend to remain in the fitness industry what we're here to tell you today is maybe you should consider upping your game and getting ready to try to investigate the potential of obtaining our certification.

Inna Koppel:
You know, I have to tell you that I speak to... We get hundreds of applications for apprentices for the Starting Strength Gyms. And many times I'm taking calls with candidates who are sitting in their car in between their gym shifts and they don't have clients anymore, so they're just cleaning the gym floor. And they're telling me, you know, I spent all this money on a college education and I don't have a job. Nobody is hiring for strength and conditioning. People don't want average trainers. Gyms don't have enough business.

Inna Koppel:
And I explain to them that really the Starting Strength credential functions as a technical institute of sort, because at the end you will come out with a skill, a skill that is sought after right now more than any other skill in the fitness industry. And I don't even like using the word fitness when it comes to what Starting Strength does.

Mark Rippetoe:
It doesn't really describe what we do at all.

Inna Koppel:
I'll tell you what. I had a client that said it to me best. She said... I said to her, you know, she was not a barbell trainee. She worked out on our bootcamp side of the gym. And I said, what are you going to do? You know, the gym's closed? She said, oh, you know, I'll just starve myself. And that's in comparison to the barbell trainee who said, no matter what, I just got to get a bar and a couple of plates and I'm good. You know, and it's such a it's such a different way of thinking because the person who was in just fitness classes for the sake of sweating, knows that all they have to do to to see the results they want is to starve themselves. They don't really need their fitness classes or their trainers. And that's why these trainers are really out of work.

Mark Rippetoe:
Right, because their metric is not our metric. Our metric is strength. Their metric is skinny. And it's it's such a completely different mindset. It's two completely different world views.

Inna Koppel:
I have trainee's to this day who are reaching out to me saying, Inna I just need to get my... You're right. This is lasting longer than I thought. I need to be doing my workouts. I need my Starting Strength. I need my program. I need to get it back. So I usually have to stock them with equipment, send them links. They get on a site where they get notified that items are sold out. But the trainee says to me, I don't want to lose my strength. And the fitness person says, I'll just starve myself until the gym opens again. And that is why trainers are out of work.

Inna Koppel:
But if you're specifically looking for a trade, like having a skill, like coaching the Starting Strength method, that is in high demand. The amount of inquiries we're getting and the amount of gyms coming open is is creating the demand for Starting Strength coaches in particular. And the people who have trained using the Starting Strength method know that the method uncovers something that they find to be true.

Inna Koppel:
You see, I tell everybody that the difference between barbell training using the Starting Strength method and barbell training using any other type of random exercise regimen, is that the model of Starting Strength and how we do the lifts is what gives the tool meaning. The barbell training exercises have meaning behind them, because you're discovering something that's true out there in the universe, whether it's the way that the body functions, the way that we adapt to stress, you see, it isn't just the movements that we coach, it's the programming that's Starting Strength uses, which is very specific and very sought after, because who else can help you make progress no matter who you are from an athlete that's never really reached their level of strength that they should have to a frail senior who's terrified of breaking bones and becoming frail and winding up in a hospital that, you know, is overloaded right now.

Inna Koppel:
This is a completely different ballgame and Starting Strength is being sought after. We are constantly being contacted to be online coaches during this time or to see people in person. I'm not being contacted by any other certification that I've had. And as a result, the demand for Starting Strength coaches has grown. Usually the investor was choosing to open a Starting Strength Gym has done Starting Strength themselves have been through the NLP and they know the value of it. And so they want to give this to other people. And I'm specifically looking for people who are going to be top notch coaches working at these facilities because we've reached a bottleneck where the demand has grown so big for the gyms during a time where we didn't expect it to to we need our coaches staffing these gyms, it's it's a remarkable thing and people are thrilled that someone's hiring.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, Inna sent me an article today I hadn't seen before. This is this is something we talk about in the seminars every month. This was a Men's Health article entitled "How I Became a Certified Personal Trainer Overnight." If you want to look this up, it's pretty amusing. The date on it, June 4th, 2013. And the author, Jeff Tomko, details the process by which he obtained a personal trainer certification in like an hour.

Mark Rippetoe:
And it it it really is a fascinating thing that the industry, the broader industry, realizes that they need some kind of way to differentiate the staff on the floor from the members on the floor. The the amusing thing about it is that the methods that they've come up with to certify these people do not guarantee that there's a difference at all. A knowledgeable member could pass any of these certifications much more easily than theire... The kid that comes out of the exphys department at the four year university.

Mark Rippetoe:
And he lists several examples of this. There's the the the one that I always refer to is the American something college or fitness science examiners or something: "You don't pay if you don't pass." Which one is that? It's in here. I just read it. I can't remember which one it is.

Mark Rippetoe:
And so the article starts off making a decent point and then he gets completely lost because he doesn't understand that the certifications that he regards as the gold standard are just the same bullshit as everybody else's. They're all they're all exactly the same, they have... Virtually everybody passes, I think that he actually still refers to the NSCA's certified strength and conditioning specialist as the gold standard in the industry.

And, oh, God, he thinks it takes a lot of preparation to get all of this and and it's rigorous and all this other shit. It's a multiple choice questions test. I don't know how you fail the CSCS. I don't know how you'd feel it if you've done any preparation at all. And that that certification is is a ticket that you punch as you're leaving the door from your for your exphys degree. That's everybody that has a PE degree has a CSCS. There are very few exceptions to that.

Inna Koppel:
And you know, what was disturbing to see in addition to this was that it wasn't just that trainers and gyms were shut down, but physical therapy clinics are also deemed non-essential.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, you know, I agree with that, Inna. I couldn't agree with that more. Physical therapy clinics are wonderful places to waste a hell of a bunch of money because the people working in the physical therapy clinic are those kids that just got out with a PE degree and a CSCS. And they're in there holding your hand while you squeeze a ball and, you know, raise your arm over your head ten times and straighten out your leg, you know, for a set of ten - quad sets, you know, quad sets - how those strength and everything.

Inna Koppel:
Sorry, the Starting Strength Coaches who also have physical therapy degrees, they weren't working in their physical therapy practice during the time when it was shut down, they were doing their online coaching. They were using their Starting Strength credential to work.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, I was going to mention this... we've had at every one of our seminars for the past several years, we always ask everybody at the at five o'clock how many of you people have got a CSCS or any other certification from NASM or ACE or whatever, you know, certifying agency. And we'll have a show of hands and then I'll ask them all. How many of you people have been contacted this week for your services because you have those certifications and not one time in the past ten years has anybody with one of those certifications raise their hand and told me that they were contacted this week because they are a CSCS.

Mark Rippetoe:
And then I'll ask all of the Starting Strength coaches in the room how many of you have been contacted this week about your services because you are Starting Strength Coach and every one of them will raise their hands. It's a completely different thing because our certification is hard. Our pass rate is about fifteen percent. It usually takes twice to get through this evaluation process. The vast majority of the time you don't pass this the first time you come unless you really, really been prepared under the supervision of somebody who knows how to prepare you to get through our credential.

Mark Rippetoe:
You're just not going to pass the first time because we're not granting a certification, the other places exist to grant a certification. Our assumption, when you show up at a Starting Strength seminar, is that you are going to fail unless you prove to our staff that you are operating at their level. And that is a completely different paradigm, a completely different paradigm. You have to demonstrate before you can even take the the theoretical part of the test, which is now a two hour oral interview, you have to demonstrate that you can coach barbell training on the platform before will even let you hear the questions. If you can't coach, if you can't function as a coach with a client in a controlled high pressure setting then you do not pass.

Mark Rippetoe:
And we are the only certification in the entire industry that approaches the problem that way. Now, this is has been a problem, hasn't it, because we don't have enough coaches, but we have always said that we will not water the quality of the certification down just to solve this problem. So this is what Inna's job is now. All right. Her job is to find you people who can, in fact, get ready and pass this thing and help them get through it. How are you? How are you approaching that?

Inna Koppel:
Well, now, these guys are really fortunate in that you have a Starting Strength online prep course that helps to streamline the learning process for them. Now, when I was becoming a coach, I had to teach all the material to myself. I had to I didn't have anyone to follow and to learn under. And so it took me a lot longer and I didn't know where I was going to work afterwards. Obviously, I could work in my own gym, but if I was on my own, you know, there was no real process to this.

Inna Koppel:
So now we have a prep course that within six months you can complete the modules that help prepare you for the platform test out and the oral board. So I only choose candidates - and I cherry pick them from the prep course, because if you're interested in Starting Strength and teaching it to yourself, I don't care how motivated you are unless you have signed up for the prep course and started studying in a way where, you know, we're guiding everything that you're doing.

Inna Koppel:
This has been designed to help teaching from the basics. You know, because people read the book, they get lost, they get discouraged, they don't know the sciences. But in the prep course, everything is being streamlined. And so everything builds on itself and you get a Starting Strength Coach as a mentor to help answer questions for you. And I know that if you're in the prep course, you're serious about this process. You're being educated properly and you're basically entering a technical institute where you come out with a skill that particular gives you the knowledge of how to coach these lifts in a group setting and prepares you to answer questions for clients and to doctors and to really function as a professional in your field.

Inna Koppel:
So we have people who show interest, and the first step in the apprenticeship is to start lifting yourself, to go through the novice progression, read the book, watch all the videos, sign up for the prep course, and then I'll talk to you. Because there's so many people that apply to this, but we're interested in the dead serious candidates who understand the value of this and who want to be Starting Strength Coaches in a gym.

Mark Rippetoe:
If if you're not serious enough about this to have gone through the novice, at least the novice progression yourself, then you're insufficiently serious. And it's real important to understand this because people who are waving their legs around in the in the global gym, doing leg extensions and pec decks, don't understand human movement. They don't understand solving a balance problem under a barbell. They don't understand what happens on the fifth rep of the third heavy set of squats for that day. And if you don't understand it yourself, you can't coach it. And the only way to understand it, the only way to learn it is to do it.

Mark Rippetoe:
So if you have not gone through the process of squats, presses, deadlifts, bench presses, power cleans incrementally loaded over months of training, then you don't understand it and you cannot communicate it to anyone else. One of the things that we understand very, very well that most people do not understand is that you cannot coach a movement pattern, that you have not performed at some level of expertise yourself because you filter your observations of the athlete you're coaching through the experience base that you have accumulated while doing the same movement.

Mark Rippetoe:
And Dr. Bradford goes through this extremely important concept on the video on our website called The Coaching Eye. To my knowledge, no one in physical education has approached that problem from this from her standpoint and in terms of movement, coaching pedagogy. That is a groundbreaking video, a groundbreaking examination of the of what actually happens during coaching. And yet the exercise science community continues to ignore it because she hasn't got a tenured chair at a four year institution teaching three sections of exphys. It's just it's just absolutely amazing that here is this, that it's a it's I cannot overstate the importance of people who are trying to be coaches watching that video. It's called The Coaching Eye. It explains so very much about what you have to do if you're going to effectively coach movement. Any movement, not just barbell exercise, but any movement. And if you haven't watched that go to go, as soon as you get through watching this podcast, go to our website and look at The Coaching Eye.

Inna Koppel:
Well, and in addition to being able to coach the lifts of what's specific to Starting Strength is also the way that we program the lifts. And your programming is is really just as valuable as the model for coaching the lifts. And we want to see that people understand how to apply that that programming to individuals through various phases of their training. They have to understand what stress recovery adaptation is.

Inna Koppel:
And, you know, before Starting Strength, I had never heard of anything except go hard, push hard. Recovery wasn't talked about. Balancing volume and intensity, working with people who were had disabilities, who had ailments. The programming is just as unique as the physical model of coaching lifts. And that's something that these aspiring coaches will be taught in the prep course as well. And they have to, like you said, experience it themselves to really understand what we write out on paper. The programming is as specific as the physical movements are themselves.

Inna Koppel:
And every Starting Strength Gym doesn't just function as a place for trainees to train, it functions as a career development center for aspiring coaches. The Starting Strength community works together. We're invested in helping other coaches who are up and coming, get the experience they need and seeing enough trainees move on the platform so that they can get the experience they need to pass.

Inna Koppel:
But like you said, this isn't a frivolous place where you come to just hang out a place of recreation that is non-essential. Starting Strength gyms are career development centers for aspiring coaches. They're places of education where we hold seminars and camps. And this is a completely different system than a general gym. These are essential places for people. And the trainees know it and the coaches know it and it's sought after.

Inna Koppel:
So we are looking to hire people who want to specifically work with a Starting Strength model, with its programming, and who are looking to work in Starting Strength gyms. Because before where you graduated from your college and you've got a degree that now doesn't help you with employment and you're sitting at home because you're just a CSCS trainer and nobody's calling you and your places are closed because they're nonessential. And even if you're a physical therapist who is seen as non-essential, I mean, this is the time this pandemic has exposed all of these programs who are just stealing money from young kids in school, claiming that they're going to come out with some sort of future.

Mark Rippetoe:
That's, you know, that you hit the nail on the head right there. An honest college program would tell you up front: We can't really get you a job in this field. Now, I understand that college is not supposed to be a vocational program. I understand an English degree is not a vocational program, but and I understand that history degree is... This is academic inquiry. I understand that. But a PE degree? A four year PE degree? It's just...

Mark Rippetoe:
The level of of of dishonesty there is amazing because the people that run that that program know damn good and well that all of those kids think they're going to go to work in the fitness industry. And they can't if the industry has taken a blow like it has, just taken. Now, I understand that not everybody understood....everybody saw this coming. All right. But it points to the fact that there is no inherent value in a four year degree.

Mark Rippetoe:
All right, now, my advice for you right now, if you are entering your junior year in a four year degree is to not spending more money on it. I made some recommendations at the end of this article that you read on Wednesday. You need to know some science, OK? You need to you need to either take... Stop taking your PE courses and go sign up for freshman chemistry so that you'll know something when you get through. Sign up for freshman physics. Mechanics. Wave motion and heat is what they used to call that first course. Your school probably calls it something else. But sign up for that. Sign up for some biology courses, get through general physiology.

Mark Rippetoe:
You don't need the degree. You certainly don't need a PE degree. And at Starting Strength gyms, we don't hire degrees. We don't even ask you what your degree is. You may mention it and it might be interesting, but we're interested in your competence, your expertise, your experience. We understand that when you come to work for us, you may not have any experience and we will provide that, but you have to have a background understanding of what it is we're going to have you do if you don't know what a moment arm is. But, you know, you you need to come in with that, you need to learn that yourself. You need to bring something to the table.

Mark Rippetoe:
You need to bring the experience with you of what it took you to get your squat up to 405. Ok, these are things that we can't give you in any prep course, these are things that you have to be responsible for.

Mark Rippetoe:
So my advice to you would be to...you don't need a four year PE degree for anything. There's nothing you're going to do with a four year PE degree. Let me give you a little hint: There's nothing you're going to do with a master's in PE either. All right.

We have people show up...Inna has been at seminars with us for years, people show up at the seminar with a masters degree in some version of PE, biomechanics, exercise physiology, and come up to us at the end of the of the of the weekend and say, you know, I learned more practical stuff this weekend than I had in the six years I've gotten this degree. How many times you heard that, huh?

Inna Koppel:
All the time.

Mark Rippetoe:
I mean, we hear it all the time. That's just what normally occurs.

Inna Koppel:
And they tell me, you know, that they're being taught by professors who themselves don't really train. They don't really participate in the things that they're teaching. So...

Mark Rippetoe:
The Coaching Eye, watch it. The Coaching Eye, watch it.

Inna Koppel:
And I speak to a lot of candidates who are really relieved to hear that there is a process by which they could be taught in this sort of trade program where they will come out having the skill and becoming a coach that's in high demand, whether they're working for a gym or not. They're relieved to know that in just a short period of time they could work again.

Inna Koppel:
I mean, I speak to young kids. I speak to people with families. I just spoke with a mother who had just had a baby and she just lost her position as a trainer in a gym and she doesn't know what to do. And she was really enthusiastic about the Starting Strength method method and tried it herself and the convenience of being able to do the prep course at home online while she is trying to get her life back together. She was thrilled to know that that process was available to her and that she could really change her life. Now, turn it around and within a year be in a facility working and doing a dream job that she wanted, you know?

Inna Koppel:
So it's it's it makes me sad to hear all of these people who are out of work, who have been fooled by institutions that took advantage of them and sold them a degree that is now nonessential. And at the same time, at the end of our conversations, there's hope and that they found Starting Strength and they know that now they can build a career for themselves in just a few months and that they have this huge support system.

Inna Koppel:
I mean, we have gyms opening all over the country. And you know what, Rip? More people are willing to relocate now than ever, because if you're living in California, you want the hell out.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, let's talk about relocation. Our... We've got about 30, in excess of 35, what did you say, 38 gyms? In various stages of completion at this point. We've got commitments from people for quite a few of these gyms. We've got... We're looking for leases. We're looking for people to staff. You may have to move. I'm sorry, we're not going to put a gym in a market because the employees live in the market, that's not how markets work. We're going to put gyms in markets where the gym can fill up and you may have to relocate. And I'm sorry about that, but...

Mark Rippetoe:
You know, when... I'm 64, I'm not interested in moving to South Dakota right now, although I probably should be, because of just the inertia. I mean, I own property here. And, you know, I'm pretty entrenched in North Texas. And, you know, our other little place in Colorado, back and forth between the two is sufficient for my needs. But if I were 25 and I was in a shitty situation where I am right now, I'd get in the car. Put all your shit in the back seat. What doesn't fit in the back seat, get new shit later and go somewhere while it's still easy enough to do where the opportunity for you to thrive actually exists.

Mark Rippetoe:
Because if you're in a situation right now.... If you're in New York, like poor Inna. She's essentially trapped by the inertia in New York right now, but she'll eventually have to move. You if you're mobile, and I assure you, you're more mobile than you think you are, right, you may have to move. And if we open up a gym in a location and you have the slightest interest in working for us, you might ought to give some thought to putting your shit in the car. Because that's what it's going to take, a trip.

Inna Koppel:
They are. Everybody that I spoke to maybe maybe really over 90 percent of the people that I'm speaking to and they're anywhere from ages 25, you know, 20 to 40. And I'm also speaking to veterans. And at the present time, we even have a program with veterans that supports veterans through this process as well. So I speak to people of every age and they all want to relocate just to have the opportunity of working in a Starting Strength Gym.

Inna Koppel:
And another thing that's attractive to them is explain to them, you know, some people ask, why isn't there a gym in my city? And I said, well, we put gyms where there's the most amount of interest so that you don't have to struggle to attain clients. These clients are given to you. All you have to do is, coach. It's not your job to get clients like you had in your previous job. And so for us to ensure that, we have to put them in places where there is demand at the present time.

Inna Koppel:
We have gyms open in Austin and Dallas and Houston and in Denver. And I've opened my spreadsheet here... We've got signed gyms opening in Chicago, Boston, a second gym in Denver, second in Dallas and Plano, Dallas, a third gym in Dallas. Coach Carter's kicking butt. Los Angeles. Houston, a second gym. Vancouver, Washington. Hillsborough, Boise two gyms. San Antonio. Cincinnati. And we have interest in Memphis, Oklahoma City two gyms. Columbus, Salt Lake.

Mark Rippetoe:
And by interest, we made people we've talked to that are folks who are going to sign the franchise agreement.

Inna Koppel:
Yes, absolutely. These are people that are that have contacted us. That have sought after this franchise. They want to open gyms and we're working with them now on helping them through the process. We've got Orlando, Tacoma, College Station, Atlanta, and the list goes on. And these are people that we're currently working with.

Inna Koppel:
And so in the ma... In the next month, you're going to be hearing more and more announcements of more gyms opening in cities near you. And so parallel to this, we also have a prep course and a streamlined process where we are putting these candidates into a pipeline of education and then they attend seminars and coaching academies where we could further evaluate them.

Inna Koppel:
I put them into contact with these gym owners early on in the process so that they understand that we make the introductions, that they understand that the opportunities lie here and here. This isn't like, come get a degree, we hope you get a job. This is do your best, become a Starting Strength Coach, here's the job waiting for you. And that's that's a different kind of ballgame.

Inna Koppel:
Now, not everybody gets hired. And this doesn't guarantee you a position. You have to earn it. You have to be the best because we only hire the best. So the quality of the coaching makes a big difference. And that's why the gyms are successful.

Mark Rippetoe:
The reason we're doing this program today is to let you understand that we need you. OK, we have to grow, not growing is not an option. This product, there's a demand for it. We've sold in excess of three quarters of a million books. OK, Starting Strength is the is the number one selling book on barbell training in the history of the printing press, lots and lots of people are carrying this book around in their gym right now without any supervision. There is a market for this product.

Mark Rippetoe:
The bottleneck right now is staff, and you are the answer to that problem. Ok, and what what is telling you is. Something you need to listen to if you aspire to be better than a pin setter at a recreational model Globo gym. All right, if you want to be a coach instead of somebody that just wanders around in the floor with a shiny shirt that says Trainer, you know, and and and, you know, your entire coaching vocabulary consists of "one more rep!" You know, if you want to be better than that, then we need we want you to talk to us about it, all right.

Mark Rippetoe:
And, Inna, how do they get hold of you?

Inna Koppel:
So they can get a hold of me at Starting Strength Gyms dot com and you can look up the tab "work at a gym" and it.... On that page you will find a questionnaire where you put in your personal information and I'll contact you and we'll talk about your present experience, what your aspirations are, and if you're a candidate for an apprenticeship. And if I think that you have potential of becoming a Starting Strength coach, we'll start you in the pipeline, start you in the prep course. And the goal would be to achieve your Starting Strength credential so that you could, you know, work at a Starting Strength Gym.

Inna Koppel:
Now, again, I emphasise to everyone, this doesn't guarantee that everyone who enters the pipeline will come out with a position in a Starting Strength Gym. But if you're the best of the best, we're looking for you. We want to hire you because Starting Strength Gyms produce quality, produce a quality training experience.

Inna Koppel:
And this is in particular for coaching the Starting Strength method. This isn't just to become a trainer. We're looking for talented, motivated people who have a lot of integrity in their field and want to coach the Starting Strength method at a gym. Our gyms are growing and the demand for coaches is growing. And I'm here to help everybody through the process and to identify the right coach, the right fit, for the right person.

Mark Rippetoe:
Well, I think it's an important message. This this podcast may seem like an advertisement kind of and, you know, in in a certain way that it is. All right, not everybody that watches this podcast is going to be interested in what we have to say today. But I'm quite sure that some of the people that are interested enough in Starting Strength who watch the podcast on a regular basis are going to benefit from this information.

Mark Rippetoe:
I want you guys that are that are in this situation to think about this. All right, give it some serious thought. If you'd like to be in this business, you already know, then our end of this business is viable and it's a much more viable end of the business than the recreational clubs, than the big gyms, than the recreational facilities where you go to just have a good time and exercise. Our approach is fundamentally different. You already know that. That's why you watch this podcast on a regular basis. And if you'd like to join us in this business endeavor, get a hold of Inna, I-N-N-A at Starting Strength Gyms dot com. Communicate with her. And she'll set you on the path toward employment in a Starting Strength Gym.

Mark Rippetoe:
Thanks for being with us today.

Inna Koppel:
Thanks, Rip

Mark Rippetoe:
We appreciate your efforts. Inna's one of our most important people, and we just love her completely, so. You will, too, once you get to know her.

Inna Koppel:
Buy me some pizza.

Mark Rippetoe:
She's going to help you. All right. So get a hold of her and let us hear from you. OK.

Mark Rippetoe:
Thanks for being with us today. And thank you for joining us at Starting Strength Radio. We'll see you next Friday.

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